New belt, new problem..

galadduin

galadduin

Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Messages
1,363
Hi,
I have bought 40 new AlO 220 and 400 belts. While I was working on my reed knives I noticed a couple of deep scratch marks. I was sure I cleaned all 60 and 80 grit marks with 120 j-flex. So I checked my 120 grit belts and there was no problem. I returned to 120 and cleaned these deep scratches then again 220 belt. There it was ! :mad::mad: again deep scratches. Stopped the belt and examined my 220 belt with a magnifying glass. Between the normal grits there was big black stone pieces. Bigger than 40 grit pieces. I checked other belts, I found these bastards on 3-4 belts. Anyone experienced that??? Those belts are from a local factory, I will return the problematic belts back and will order some Norton belts. I loose about one day just to clean these scratches :grumpy:....
 
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Thats one of the differences between "standard" grade belts and "premium" belts......stray grit from the production of other grits belts. This problem is very common with "bargin" belts.....and is one of the reasons I try to steer folks towards using only the top name brand belts. There really is a difference between a $4 belts and a $8 belt!

Many years ago I went through the same thing, and when I tried to return the belts, the seller would not accept the return, saying.. "That sometimes happens, and we have no contorl over it." WHAT!? That was when I started using only premium belts from reputable sellers. My opinion is that there are only two places to purchase your belts. If your west of the Mississippi, buy from Tru-Grit, in Ontario, CA. If your east of the Mississippi, buy from Pop Knives in Washington, GA.
With either you'll always get top quality abrasives, and if something isn't right, the returns are easy and hassle free.
 
I have seen only once on a 3M cubitron 36 grit, it was like the belt was nice and even then BAM there was a HUGE stone, like a grit nugget.
 
Ed Caffrey said:
If your west of the Mississippi, buy from Tru-Grit, in Ontario, CA. If your east of the Mississippi, buy from Pop Knives in Washington, GA.
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:D I'm east of USA :D. Thanks Mr Caffrey, I'll try my chance on Tracy's online shop instead... :D Premium :thumbup: is what I was thinking. Going cheap costs more than quality I learned..
 
I need to amend my input...and apologize to Tracy for forgetting him concerning belts. I would trust Tracy just as much as I do Tru-Grit or Pop's.
 
I use Pop's or Jantz (depends on if I have money in bank or Paypal :D ) I primarily use 3M products or I'd buy from Tracy, I'm probably going to try some of those Blazes soon.

I've never had an issue with a 3M belt that wasn't self induced. I'm trying out some of the blue zirc belts from Pop's and they're nice but I can dang sure tell the difference between a 977 and the blue zircs.
 
I've always found it interesting how a particular belt brand/type works well for someone, while not so well for others. I've stayed with Norton and Klingspoor because I always had one issue or another with 3M belts....it leads me to believe that there are many factors involved, like steel type, whether its a forged or stock removal situation, and even the grinding habits of the individual. I do think that even though cost is always a consideration, sometimes folks allow that to be a determining factor for buying one belt over the other, without realizing that the cost of buying/using those "bargin" belts is ease of grinding, longevity, and the outcome of the finished product.
For a long time I swore by the Klingspoor CS411 in 50 grit (thats the Blue Zircs that Will mentioned) ...then I received a couple of the 50 grit Blaze belts for testing.....and have since switched to them for my "heavy grit" belts.
I think I'm kind of a "belt snob" in that I will throw a belt away when others would still consider it "plenty sharp and usable". In my shop belts are without a doubt the highest quantity of consumables, but I realized a long time ago that the ease of grinding and the way the finished product comes out compared to using lesser grade belts is well worth the extra monietary input.
It might take some time to find the right combination of belts for an individual's tastes, but whatever those products might be, premium abrasives will make your job easier and the finished products will come out much better.
 
Emre, Ed and Sam, thank you.:) Life is too short to cheat for a buck.

Just like Ed said, a belt that works great for one guy might not for another one. It really pays to try other belts, side by side. It has to do with pressure applied and speed of the belt. All belts have friability designed into them. Friability is the term meaning how the grit breaks apart under use to expose fresh, sharp new grit. Every one is going to grind with different pressure applied, speeds, metals, thicknesses, etc.. I personally get way more use out of a Blaze belt than any other kind I've found for stock removal in lower grits. (disclaimer - I sell Norton belts and I am NOT trying to sell here) They just work for me. You might find ceramic 3M belts work best for you. 3M has some great belts. Another example is when I use a Norax belts, they tend to glaze over or go dull after awhile. By awhile, I mean several knives - they last an insanely long time. When they get dull, I run them at full speed and push a scrap piece of steel evenly into the belt quite hard until I see a a lot of dust coming off the belt. This dust is the grit that is breaking down under pressure and exposing fresh, sharp new grit. You should use Norax belts until the cloth backing shows up or you just get sick of them. Blaze belts will benefit from the same thing but for me, I don't seem to have to do it that often. I have done this for years with a typical 120grit blue zirc belts also.

Cheap belts break down quickly. They also have less quality control on the grit size just like Emre came across. (You get in the zone grinding that it's a hard one to catch. If you find scratches keep showing up after you've been working on a belt for 5 to 10 minutes. CHANGE THE BELT!) Cheap belts also have 30% to 50% less grit bonded to the surface. This isn't always bad. You should always use cheap AO belts for leather, plastic, aluminum - materials that normally gum up a good 'closed bonded' 90% coverage belt quickly. (I really wish I had figured that out a long time ago. I wasted a LOT of expensive belts on micarta and kydex before it dawned on me the cheap ones lasted way longer in this application.)
 
I am not a belt user, but I have HEARD that a new belt, no matter the quality, should be "conditioned" by lightly grinding a piece of scrap steel. Supposedly this knocks off the stray chunks which will scratch your finish. Will you experienced grinders please comment on this?
 
Lawp, I've heard that but I don't do that. I will run a piece of mild against a quality ceramic belt to clean it up and refracture the ceramics.
 
Will Leavitt said:
Lawp, I've heard that but I don't do that. I will run a piece of mild against a quality ceramic belt to clean it up and refracture the ceramics.
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AlOx is ceramic, or are you referring to a special belt? When you say "clean it up" do you mean a used belt, or a new belt? If new, doesn't this knock the chunks off?
 
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