New Belt Recommendation and a big THANK YOU to 3M

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Fiddleback

Knifemaker
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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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For years I have had a problem with my trizac gator belts causing a ripple in the finish. Some weeks this happened to every knife and some weeks only a few. I've also noticed that sometimes the belts looked crisp and sharp, the shape of the little plateaus of grit being perfectly formed. and sometimes they were crumbly and haphazardly formed on the belt. This seemed to cause the ripple effect. A few years ago I called 3m in a fury and was promised that a salesman would visit to address the problem. This never happened. Eventually, I talked to James Poplin, and as usual, he went the extra mile. Within a week his sales rep stopped by the shop with samples and suggestions.

His suggestion, which I initially doubted was to use a different version of the same belt. This is when I was introduced to the Trizac Gator CF 347FC. The commonly available Trizac Gator belt is the CF 337DC. Both belts have a canvas backing material. I thought the salesman was off his nut initially. Why would the backer matter this much. Then I tried these belts and was blown away. I had none of the ripples, and for some reason the belts seemed to cut faster and longer. (NOW, the samples had perfectly formed plateaus of grit. We've now gone through a couple of dozen and I've only found one poorly made example in the new belt, which is way better than the old ones.) I definitely wanted to switch. Unfortunately, no supplier carried them. Once again James Poplin of Pops Knife Supply came to the rescue.

So, now you can find these belts available at Pops Knife Supply. For what its worth, I give them my strongest recommendation.

Much appreciation go out to 3M and to James Poplin for helping me fix this problem. The grind time has decreased significantly because of their attention to this problem.
 
The only one he is currently carrying is the A100, but I am working to get the A30 carried as well.

I think they are a small bit cheaper actually.
 
I'm curious if the rep recommended "dressing" the gators.
I've started doing that after Nathan Carothers recommended it in a thread a while back. He uses a diamond dressing stone like you'd use for a bench grinder. I use a flat piece of hardened steel. It seems to lengthen their life.
 
Interesting... I've also experienced the rippling effect once in a while. I was thinking it was just certain steels in combination w/ the abrasive that was creating the effect.

I just called the place where I get belts and they said that, basically, there are 3 different pressure rated gator trizacts... 327 is low pressure, 337 is medium pressure, and 347 is for high pressure applications. So I'm curious as to what speed you normally grind at and how much pressure you use?

I also dress my gators w/ a diamond dressing stone... helps extend the life of the belt a ton and keeps them efficient. Otherwise they glaze very quickly for me and do not work.
 
rcetroy said:
I'm curious if the rep recommended "dressing" the gators.
I've started doing that after Nathan Carothers recommended it in a thread a while back. He uses a diamond dressing stone like you'd use for a bench grinder. I use a flat piece of hardened steel. It seems to lengthen their life.
Click to expand...

He did not. I dress mine with cut up 36 grit belt pieces glued to a block of wood. I find that using an agressive grit to dress the belts leaves them sharper.

razor-edge-knives said:
Interesting... I've also experienced the rippling effect once in a while. I was thinking it was just certain steels in combination w/ the abrasive that was creating the effect.

I just called the place where I get belts and they said that, basically, there are 3 different pressure rated gator trizacts... 327 is low pressure, 337 is medium pressure, and 347 is for high pressure applications. So I'm curious as to what speed you normally grind at and how much pressure you use?

I also dress my gators w/ a diamond dressing stone... helps extend the life of the belt a ton and keeps them efficient. Otherwise they glaze very quickly for me and do not work.
Click to expand...

I grind everything at full speed on a 1.5HP KMG. Interesting news # system. I'd like to try the 327 also.
 
Interesting! I've gotten lots of those degraded looking gator belts and wondered what was up! I grind to near zero on lots of knives and they are awful about catching the knife like a buffer. I have dealt with the ripple too but thought it was the D2 I was using... big thanks for the great info as they are still my favorite belts for finishing.
 
This is very interesting information Andy, thank you. Would you happen to have some photos that show the problematic belts and ripples on steel?
 
Thank for the heads up. I will make sure that I pay more attention to the "model number" next time that I order belts.
 
Well, very helpful to me, I'll bet. I've seen the glazing and of course experienced what I thought was less than hoped for from the belt.
Thank you ! Going to try this next grind. I already have one of those grinder wheel tools.
Frank
 
matus said:
This is very interesting information Andy, thank you. Would you happen to have some photos that show the problematic belts and ripples on steel?
Click to expand...

I can definitely get pics of the belts. I don't have any now. I switched suppliers until I found one that usually had good ones and didn't mind exchanges. At one time I was giving away lots of belts to hollow grinders. I think its not as big an issue for hollow grinders. My convex grinds on the rotary platen seem to magnify the issue. Its been a real headache. I've also seen less of the problem on the finer grits. A30's for example seem to almost always be nice looking belts.
 
rcetroy said:
I'm curious if the rep recommended "dressing" the gators.
I've started doing that after Nathan Carothers recommended it in a thread a while back. He uses a diamond dressing stone like you'd use for a bench grinder. I use a flat piece of hardened steel. It seems to lengthen their life.
Click to expand...

Can you explain this to me please?
 
M.FREEZE said:
Can you explain this to me please?
Click to expand...

I have a scrap piece of 2 X 1/8" steel that I use to freshen up the gator belts. First I flatten the end of it with a disc sander and then place it on the tool rest and press the flattened end into the gator belt. A diamond dressing stone would work as well. Hope that helps.
 
When dressing the belt is there any kind of contamination from the low grit belt or diamond stone?
 
I just followed the suggestion here on using old 50 grit ceramic belt to dress the Gator 337.

I thought these belts were dead but now they came back to life !

Great tip and so easy to do.
 
tump said:
When dressing the belt is there any kind of contamination from the low grit belt or diamond stone?
Click to expand...

Not that I've seen. The biggest challenge is getting an even dress across the face - not that it's hard you just need to pay attention. I use a piece of 50 grit ceramic like Adam posted.
 
the 327's are sick... I just tried a sample set in a160 and a65, cut very quickly and don't glaze over. But again, I grind at low speed so this wouldn't be for everyone.
 
Thanks for the info Andy.
I buy all my belts from pop. I assume he will be listing them on his site soon?
 
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