New BK20 - Ka-Bar please stop mutilating tips of the blades! Third bad one for me.

M

MKabar

Joined
Dec 7, 2012
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84
Hello Becker fans,

so I finally got my hands on the new BK20 and BK5. Definitelly the first (and last) BK20 in Czech Republic :-).
First of all, I want to thank you Jeff, for his big help with obtaining BK20+5.
Also I want to thank you my friend Chris, who helped me to obtain BK21 couple months ago.

14dpp2v.jpg


With this two pieces, my Becker collection is finally done I think. Also my soon to be wife have BK7+BK17.
So 8 Beckers for us :-). My favourite factory produced knives.

But I am really dissapointed with the new BK20. Tip of the blade is grinded too much from the right side
and its even burned from the grinding :-(. Blade curve is totaly out on the tip and the blade is also very slightly curved to the right side.
Before you start commenting me, that I am too finicky, please understand these - I payed 268 USD for the BK20, intercontinental shipping cost are really expensive.
And 268 USD is really huge ammount of money here, its 3-4 times more value for us, than for USA.
And I am no expert grinder or bladesmith, to grind this out. Also I wanted to have BK20 as a display piece only without any use or sharpening, because its limited edition.

My old and first (and still most favourite) BK9 has a perfect completely even tip. I am using it on camping. But not for the chopping, I have 21 for this now.
New BK5 and one year old BK15 are also fine. BK15 is my EDC in the city. The BK5 is awesome, really sharp.
I am going on the mountain cabin camping this weekend, so I will test the new BK5 extensivelly :-).
But my BK2 from 3 year ago was also terribly damaged on the tip from the right side.
But its my house knive for hard use, so I didnt care about that, I sharpening it often. Half of the bad tip is already grindet out.
Bad tip on new BK21 couple month ago was also dissapointing, 21 was also completelly dull from the factory, but I use 21 pretty often, so I settled with it and put good edge on it.
The new BK21 costed me 180 USD with shipping from USA to the Czech. Really awesome blade! Its chops perfectly :-).

I always wanted bigger and thicker BK9. I was planning to order some custom handmade version, 11-12", thick, with
hammon line, from springsteel, we have some excellent custom bladesmiths here in Czech. But then the new BK20 came out,
so I bought it for premium price and now I have 6 Becker knives and half of them has poorly grinded tips (20, 2 and 21). All three are too mutch grinded from the right side :-(.
The last one, BK20, really got me angry about this. Second in the row, most expensive and for the third time with all my Beckers.
The grinding guy in Ka-Bar hurry too mutch with his grinding and destroys tips on perfect blades on every second piece I think. Based on my score...
Its not some China made Schrade, Ka-Bar is proud for all this Made in USA, so please, start grinding the tips more precise! Dont mutilating them! Thank you.

Mark/CZ


Tip of my BK20 from factory:
71l6hh.jpg


Tip of my BK2 (sharpened many times, so its better now, but still visible):
n6ro2d.jpg


Tip of my BK21 (sharpaned once):
286xpgj.jpg
 
I see this often with Ontario knives and occasionally on Kabar. I always suck it up though and fix it, or let it self adjust with time. Byproduct of mass production, the old Friday knife lol. I completely understand your concern with so much money and effort involved to get these knives. Hope you'll keep growing the collection despite this bad experience.
 
Next time you will have to hire a quality control inspector prior to shipment:D
oh wait...

I did cringe at a few of those pics. I feel your frustration.
 
I was chuckling at the thread title before I ever opened it! :D

Those resemble some in my collection. :confused: ...meh.



I have a few that are very off-centered at the tips.
They still cut,
water off a duck's back.
 
My BK2 has an awful off center tip where the whole tip area looks rolled to one side. These really aren't display quality pieces, though. They're meant to be used. It sucks that it's so expensive for you.
 
The trees don't mind the tip. Mine look good.
 
Hey MKabar.....

First of all pleas accept my thanks for your support of my products.......

The very last thing that happens to the blade before it gets put in the box is the sharpening process..... Having sharpened hundreds of blades myself during the early days, I know that you just do not get it perfectly even on both sides no matter what...... I do not offer this as an excuse but as an explanation....... The longer the blade, the less likely perfection is....... Having said that I will have a talk with Olean after our Fourth of July holiday. .....

My apologies for not having answered you on this sooner but, I have been racking my brain since yesterday as to how to answer...... If you lived in the the States or Canada it would be easy but we are both aware of the nightmare of HOW I can fix this..... Do you have any ideas on what would make you happy and how I can make it happen?..... The factory may offer some ideas as we had an issue two years ago in Czech....... Normally this can be easily dealt with by a quick return and, either a return to he sharpening guys or a replacement...... As it is more a cosmetic than utility issue an inspection at the factory would be in order but, the logistical nightmare suggests the need for a different process.....Ka-Bar and I will do our damnedest to fix this....... I hate that you are so far away......

Ethan
 
Cutlery industry is slow when it comes to technological advances. Some more than others.

Time for Cutco to shell out some $$ and equip Ka-Bar production lines with 21st century machinery.

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My BK20 looked just like that. I have no use for 40 degree bevels so a quick reprofile down to 30 was needed anyway and it wasn't so bad that I couldn't center it up. The tip must have had a 50 degree bevel on it. I might use my knives hard but I also believe in respecting the edge and can be a little particular about them. Anyway, I love Ethan's designs and even though both my BK4s came with uneven bevels you would have to pry them from my cold dead hands to get them away from me. The are amazing designs and at least here in the states they are still a good value. The first thing I do with any new knife is hit the stones so this isn't a big issue for me. I just wanted to share that I have observed similar edges in case it helps.
 
It is not surprising to learn that there are BK&T fans in distant parts of the world. Greetings to the Czech Republic from New Zealand. Congratulations in advance for finding a woman to marry who owns some decent knives.

It must be a bit disappointing to you as a collector that the grind on your new bowie is a bit lopsided. And I fully sympathise about how expensive things can become when you have to import them. I too am grateful for the help I've had in getting Beckers to fondle.

This story is very likely to have a happy ending.

It is good when a knife looks perfectly symmetrical. I have no doubt though, that if you choose to use this knife in the outdoors you will find it works as well as a knife with a perfect grind. That discoloration of the tip possibly means that the tip did get a bit hot. I've done it myself when grinding. It may even mean that the tip is a tiny bit softer than the rest of the edge. However, to me, that could be an advantage. If the tip strikes something hard it may now be less likely to chip or break off.

Do you ever hunt in your country?

Best wishes..... Stephen Coote.
 
I was thinking about the quality of Becker Knives when I took the dog for a walk this afternoon.

I don't know if it will be any comfort to you, but here's what I think about these tools. They are like an attractive, capable, down-home country wife who is a source of comfort and joy and who would seldom let you down. They may not feature often in the centerfold of popular magazines, but they are well-suited to their lifestyle, they are strong, reliable and well-respected. A wise choice for a working partner.

I think your collection is a representation of reliability and functionality even if it does include some unfortunate cosmetic blemishes.

I understand your idea behind keeping the BK20 in original condition seeing that it is a limited edition. But if I had one I wouldn't be able to leave it alone. I'd have it up in the hills in no time just to see what it was capable of. I imagine that it is probably one of the best multi-purpose 'production' chopping blades available.

Enjoy the weekend....
 
coote said:
I was thinking about the quality of Becker Knives when I took the dog for a walk this afternoon.

I don't know if it will be any comfort to you, but here's what I think about these tools. They are like an attractive, capable, down-home country wife who is a source of comfort and joy and who would seldom let you down. They may not feature often in the centerfold of popular magazines, but they are well-suited to their lifestyle, they are strong, reliable and well-respected. A wise choice for a working partner.

I think your collection is a representation of reliability and functionality even if it does include some unfortunate cosmetic blemishes.

I understand your idea behind keeping the BK20 in original condition seeing that it is a limited edition. But if I had one I wouldn't be able to leave it alone. I'd have it up in the hills in no time just to see what it was capable of. I imagine that it is probably one of the best multi-purpose 'production' chopping blades available.

Enjoy the weekend....
Click to expand...

Refreshing way to look at alot of things. Awesome. Thank you
 
coote said:
I was thinking about the quality of Becker Knives when I took the dog for a walk this afternoon.

I don't know if it will be any comfort to you, but here's what I think about these tools. They are like an attractive, capable, down-home country wife who is a source of comfort and joy and who would seldom let you down. They may not feature often in the centerfold of popular magazines, but they are well-suited to their lifestyle, they are strong, reliable and well-respected. A wise choice for a working partner.

I think your collection is a representation of reliability and functionality even if it does include some unfortunate cosmetic blemishes.

I understand your idea behind keeping the BK20 in original condition seeing that it is a limited edition. But if I had one I wouldn't be able to leave it alone. I'd have it up in the hills in no time just to see what it was capable of. I imagine that it is probably one of the best multi-purpose 'production' chopping blades available.

Enjoy the weekend....
Click to expand...

Reminds me of Harry Belafonte:

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life,
Never make a pretty woman your wife.
So from my personal point of view,
Get an ugly girl to marry you.:D
 
Hit the nail on the head, coote - and with a great deal of insight and panache as well. I find the imperfections a little, ah....I don't know, maybe frustrating - for about 5 minutes. Then I get to using it - and I will admit I HAVE to use whatever I own - and suddenly I'm not thinking about imperfections. I might be considering re-profiling, sure....but only so it's a better USER for its user. I will say the thought did cross my mind when I took the Brute to the grinder that I might be destroying an irreplaceable blade - and most certainly reducing its value - but it was just a thought. Now it's fun as hell to use (and let others use) instead of being an expensive and cool looking - but nearly useless - safe queen. Plus, I don't have a safe.
This is not to say I'm not sympathetic to your feelings about your Bundock, and I really do hope you find satisfaction with it.

Mine, OTOH - well, it's had the coating half beaten off and has already been resharpened (thank you, Jim Bensinger!)...I don't even think I looked that closely at it. I picked it up and it whispered "gotta chop something, NOW!" and off we went.
Good luck!
 
I am gonna be the devil's advocate here. I have already stated that reprofiling a knife is not a big issue for me as I always do it right away anyway and am kind of particular about my edges so I like to set them up the way I like them. My issue is that a factory messing up sharpening a knife just gives me an uneasy feeling. It is a bad sign when it comes to attention to detail. I have seen it on knives costing much more than Beckers too.

A few weeks ago I was out eating with some friends and we ordered nachos for an appetizer. When they arrived my wife grabbed the first chip and, bam, a fried fly laying right on her chip. Is that a little gross? Sure. Is the fly that big of a deal? Not really. I have eaten everything from brains to durian and am a bit of an adventurous eater. The problem with finding a fly in my food is that now everything is suspect. I cannot look at anything else there the same. Now I have to ask myself things like; Are they maintaining proper temperatures? Are they washing their hands after using the restroom? Do they have other pests like rats in the kitchen. You see, the fly is not a big deal but now I am forced to question everything else after they allowed such a glaring mistake to slip through. They gave us our margaritas for free and we left and for that I am grateful. They were very apologetic and I even sort of felt bad about the whole situation. That doesn't change the fact that consumer confidence was shaken.

Now when I see a knife from any maker with uneven bevels I just have to ask myself. Is this the attention to detail that has been afforded my knife through the whole process? If they are rushing through the sharpening and final QC process then what else are they rushing through? It has always been my understanding and I have been told by more than one maker that sharpening is a part of the process that you have to work up to and that it is not where you start. This means that that wonky bevel may be the work of one of the more experienced employees. What does that possibly say? I love Ethan's designs and this post is not meant to state that they are not producing a quality product. I truly believe they are. It is just to show that while one person may see a wonky edge and see it as a sign that the knife is meant to be an affordable hard use tool another person might see that wonky edge and see it as a sign that QC may be suspect through other stages of the process.

Feel free to agree, disagree or be indifferent. Just don't shoot me. I just like the conversation. :D :o
 
I think pretty much like you Bearfacedkiller. I apply the same reasoning quite often. I think in this particular case though, that a less-than-perfect grind doesn't necessarily mean that KaBar's whole operation is dodgy (but it might be.... dunno). It is possible that there are faults with KaBar knives that don't get publicised much, but I'm thinking that we get to learn about quite a few knives that aren't ground with perfect symmetry.... yet I haven't seen many reports of serious faults like major breakages (although I have seen some). The potential knife-making fault that would concern me the most is having a blade that is too hard and brittle.... and although the Beckers that I have seem to be a little harder than I might make them if I ran the factory, they still seem to be plenty tough enough for normal 'hard' use in the wilderness. I'll bet I could break my BK9 without too much difficultly, but I doubt that I ever will if I use it sensibly (and I will happily chop with that '9 forever). And that little extra hardness helps it to retain a good edge for longer.

I've never seen the KaBar operation, but I imagine that the heat-treating process will have a rigid procedure with minimal human input. On the other hand, the grinding will most likely be done with a human holding the knife.

But yeah.... when I'm dealing with a supplier, or helping my wife to select a new guest artist for her gallery.... I take the small things into consideration.

Having problems is part of the human condition. How people react when problems are brought to their attention is the thing to watch.
 
I bet breaking that 9 would be pretty hard. I have beat my BK4 so far like it owed me money. I have batoned it through some ugly hard oak and have even seen it bend a bit and it always seems to bounce right back. I have had to hit it so hard with a baton that it made my hands hurt the next day. My scrawny 150 pound butt would need to bring in some serious mechanical advantage to break that thing. You gotta test them before you end up out in the middle of nowhere counting on it. :D I think Kabar does Ethan right and these things are built well.
 
Those BK4s have a similar blade thickness to a 9 don't they? It is good to hear your positive report. It would be good to know how far I could bend my 9 sideways before it snapped, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I think I'd have great difficulty breaking my BK2 with just my own force and weight.
 
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