New BRKT Bravo 1 LT

[knife chop]

if I were you I'd get the GSO 4.1 from survive! knives. it has the same thickness and spec but with better manufacturing process. both companies have the same heat treatment company but what makes bark river bad is their grinding process. purchasing one would be a 50/50 that you'll have a good knife that doesn't have a ruined temper.

here's a video with a regular CPM 3v bravo 1 chipping. a good example of an over heated edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C3ur6LY5fw

Btw bark river considers chopping chopsticks are abuse.

 

[hnupek]

well.. I think LT thickness is more than enough, it's perfect slicer while having sufficient heft.. not even talking about looks:

 

[Guitarn]

My post, the video, and the review are all very specific to the Bravo 1. Other models in their line-up my be better, though the Golok would be another on the sad list. The handle material is not the issue, it is the surface finish. I have wood-handled knives with better surface finish than BRKT micarta and G10. There is "smooth" and then there is slick - BRKTs tend to the latter, with what appears to be a final PU-coat for making them pretty. And they are pretty, but I have other "pretty" knives which are much more useable and less dangerous to me. It isn't just the surface finish either. If you read the review or watch the video, you should get a better sense of this. I am not saying that the handle won't work for people, it is still a handle, but it is among the worst on the market even before you mention the sorrowful thumb ramp. There are many better designs, and on could get a custom knife with a handle specifically designed for their hand for about the same price as even the Bravo 1 LT (though you may have to wait for it)

I realize this is an old thread, but I thought it might be helpful to point out a couple things. I want to emphasize that I am not being sarcastic, though communicating through the internet sometimes makes it seem that way:

First, the "thumb ramp." I think you may not be aware that it's not actually a thumb ramp. Here is the text taken from Bark River's website:

"Here is something that needs to be clarified.

The ramp on the top of the Bravo-1 is not actually a thumb ramp. It serves two purposes. The rear part of the ramp is notched to engage the Firesteel. The front part of the ramp aids in putting more pressure over the plunge line for notching. The final result is a heavy duty bushcraft/survival knife that can stand up to abusive use."

Lots of people might instinctively use it as a thumb ramp, but that was not it's designed purpose. Perhaps just having it there is undesirable, (and that's a fair point) but it was not intended to actually be used as a thumb ramp. Hopefully that calms at least some of your misgivings, but you still have a right to not like it. It is what it is.

Second (and this is not in response to you Chiral), I have a Bravo-1 LT in CPM3V. I'm very satisfied with it, especially the thickness. There are numerous knives that I either have (or have handled) who's designers seem to think "the thicker, the better." Maybe it's just me, but I find the slightly thinner blade on the LT is much easier to handle and use than the full sized model. I also feel that it could be even thinner without missing out on much performance while gaining even more handle-ability (had to work that word in there just for kicks!)

Third, I have never heard anyone else complain about the handles (except for traction, which is solved by using something other than slippery wood/etc.) I've heard of people taking some fine sandpaper and scuffing it up a little if it's too slick, but not often. On the subject of comfort, nearly every other review I've read has talked about how comfortable it is. My own experiences echo these sentiments. This is not to say your own opinion does not have merit, because it does; if it bothers you, it bothers you. I would, however, like to give the OP another vote for the "comfort" point of view. Also, I can't say that I have ever felt like mine (which actually is a slippery bit of desert ironwood) would twist out of my hand. I actually can't think offhand where I would be twisting it forcefully anyway, but I'm more than open to the idea that I simply am having a brain fart on that issue.

In any case, hopefully the thumb ramp issue is a little clearer and the OP likes the knife he is waiting for.

Happy knife researching!

 

[RevDevil]

Question: Isn't a thumb ramp designed for that specific purpose? Applying more pressure when performing specific cuts?

 

[chiral.grolim]

I think you may not be aware that it's not actually a thumb ramp. Here is the text taken from Bark River's website:

"Here is something that needs to be clarified.

The ramp on the top of the Bravo-1 is not actually a thumb ramp. It serves two purposes. The rear part of the ramp is notched to engage the Firesteel. The front part of the ramp aids in putting more pressure over the plunge line for notching. The final result is a heavy duty bushcraft/survival knife that can stand up to abusive use."

Of course i was aware of that before ever purchasing the knife and reviewing it. And of course that quote from BRKT is absolute nonsense. The thumb-ramp was clearly designed as a thumb ramp, just like other thumb-ramp designs, only this one is VERY poorly implemented, hence the attempt to re-define the design. The problem with this: 1) the front part does NOT aid in notching, only in hurting your finger, no ramp at all aids in notching; 2) the rear-part does NOT engage a firesteel as it is, not sharp enough on the sides, it is useless for such, you are better off using the spine further up the blade. So BRKT designed a crappy thumb-ramp and then tried to re-define it as something it's even more useless for. As a thumb-ramp, it still works, just not as well as others and it is poorly placed.

Maybe it's just me, but I find the slightly thinner blade on the LT is much easier to handle and use than the full sized model. I also feel that it could be even thinner without missing out on much performance while gaining even more handle-ability (had to work that word in there just for kicks!)

:thumbup:

Third, I have never heard anyone else complain about the handles ... I've heard of people taking some fine sandpaper and scuffing it up a little if it's too slick, but not often. On the subject of comfort, nearly every other review I've read has talked about how comfortable it is. My own experiences echo these sentiments. This is not to say your own opinion does not have merit, because it does...

Lots of people don't complain about broom-handles either, they over-look it. But it isn't simply a matter of personal preference, the handle is poorly designed with regard to hand anatomy and physics in comparison to a number of other handles (as I discuss in a video and my GSO-4.1 and -5.1 reviews). It lacks proper curvature and width:thickness proportion. It is intrinsically less secure in regard to twisting, etc. And I did indeed test it rather a lot in regard to handle security as well as comfort in a variety of tasks. My handle was micarta, and it was silly-slick. YOU may not find it that uncomfortable, but you are settling for less.

Why don't you read more about people scuffing them up? Because that is deliberately damaging the pristine finish of an over-priced knife It's "semi-custom" afterall, wouldn't want to hurt the aesthetics or potential resale-value. Some folk even hesitate to mess with Becker handles! *shrug*

Fact of the matter is, the handle is poorly designed compared to MYRIAD choices available, even from BRKT. If handle-design isn't as important to you, OK. You might be happy with a broom-handle, but don't be deceived into thinking it is "comfortable", it simply isn't too uncomfortable. There is a subjective component, to be sure, but while the human hand can vary somewhat in shape & size, there is still an objective component to handle design.

 

[MatthewSB]

Question: Isn't a thumb ramp designed for that specific purpose? Applying more pressure when performing specific cuts?

I think that it's different because most thumb ramps are designed to place your thumb on the handle side, while BRKT's ramp is designed to be used with your thumb forward of the ramp, on the blade side.

 

[RevDevil]

I think that it's different because most thumb ramps are designed to place your thumb on the handle side, while BRKT's ramp is designed to be used with your thumb forward of the ramp, on the blade side.

Now I understand. I have a Bravo 1, with the ramp and was wondering about that when I first had a chance to put it to work. Thanks. :thumbup:

 

[eschwebach]

I have a Bravo 1 LT drop point and bought it specifically because it had the thinner blade stock. I have been on the hunt for my perfect 4" bushcraft/hunting knife and the Bravo 1 LT is the closest so far. That being said I have not had the chance to really put it through it's paces yet but I find the handle to be very comfortable. For me it is more comfortable than the GSO 4.1, Fallkniven F1, BK-16, and others I have tried. I can understand where it might be slippery at times. I have not tried some of the other offerings from BRKT as of yet, and perhaps when I get a chance to really put the knife to heavy use my opinion might change. We will see...

 

[Big Mike]

Now I understand. I have a Bravo 1, with the ramp and was wondering about that when I first had a chance to put it to work. Thanks. :thumbup:

I too was unsure of this whole Bravo 1 ramp issue.

I was going to order one and have the ramped removed; but, I scored a deal on a used early model and soon realized that the ramp, when used properly, did guide my hand to a position for maximum pressure on the heal of the blade. Damn, it work for my large paw.

Compared to the parent knife (the BR Gameskeeper), this knife was much more user friendly for those delving into bushcraft type chores.

I could see it being very useful in training folks to get maximum cutting performance from the knife when needed, as envisioned by those that helped Bark River develop this design.

Many have found the Bravo 1 to work for them, the choice of ramp or no ramp can be a very personal decision; I found that once I adapted to using that thumb forward grip, I use it one many other knives when putting serious pressure on the heal of the blade.



Big Mike

 

[Mikael W]

"Handle Issues" meaning that it is VERY poorly designed - very straight spine, excessive pommel-flare but minimal beak, VERY slick, and also very ROUND such that it is prone to slipping and twisting in use if not held VERY tight even with bare hands. With gloves on, or tired hands, or in cold/wet/slimy conditions, the knife is a danger to the user. And then there is the poorly designed "thumb ramp" (which most users grind off anyway, the very reason BRKT started offering it ramp-free). Now many folks won't use their knife under such conditions or may not have handled a knife with a better handle or may just delude themselves into thinking it is great since they spent so much money on the knife, but I am picky about the handles of my hand-tools since I tend to use them under ALL conditions. The BRKT is inferior. *shrug* But even BRKT offers knives with better handles.

And NO this is NOT something I simply read on the internet. This is my own experience, something I detailed in a video and my review of a couple of similar knives:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...comparison-to-BRKT-Bravo-1-amp-Swamp-Rat-HRLM

[video=youtube;welPk493sPM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=welPk493sPM[/video]


As to handle slabs actually requiring replacement, I have read about that a couple of times, and THAT really surprises me! I am glad that they were willing to stand behind their manufacturing when something is wrong, though I am surprised they'd send back the same knife rather than simply a replacement, but they are also known for grinding blades down to a shadow of their former selves as "warranty service" rather than offering shop-credit or replacement *shrug* THAT is only something that i have read/seen on the internet.

Again, this 'LT' should be a much better cutter, and the original was no slouch! But the handle-design and BRKT's reputation keep me away. I have more confidence in cheap Mora or Gerber, and for the price of this BRKT I could get a custom handmade knife from a maker of good repute here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/754-For-Sale-Fixed-Blades

chiral.grolim, I don't have the Bravo 1 and I don't question Your personal experience with the ergonomics of this handle.
Watching Your video is interesting, but how come You seem to favor the hammergrip?

I use my fixed blades for a living and only counting today, my knife saw use maybe 20-25 times.
If I have to put pressure to the handle I never find the hammer grip to be the most efficient way, to transform musclepower into the cut.

I use a loose grip with only the longfinger and ringfinger, closing the handle.
The thumb and the other two fingers are open, but no way a handle can rotate in the hand under pressure, with this grip.

The knife in the above pic's is the BR Lil' C in 3V steel.
I also have medium sized hands and the Lil'C handle is tiny.

This doesn't matter when I put force into the cut, as the forward part of the handle rests in the V of the thumb and the indexfinger.
In this way the musclepower travels all the way from the shoulder, through the arm and hand, to finally reach the edge.
This without the need to use much of the muscles in the hand and this method greatly reduces handfatigue to near zero.

So why the hammer grip?


Regards
Mikael

 

[chiral.grolim]

chiral.grolim, I don't have the Bravo 1 and I don't question Your personal experience with the ergonomics of this handle.
Watching Your video is interesting, but how come You seem to favor the hammergrip?

I use my fixed blades for a living and only counting today, my knife saw use maybe 20-25 times.
If I have to put pressure to the handle I never find the hammer grip to be the most efficient way, to transform musclepower into the cut.

I use a loose grip with only the longfinger and ringfinger, closing the handle.
The thumb and the other two fingers are open, but no way a handle can rotate in the hand under pressure, with this grip.

The knife in the above pic's is the BR Lil' C in 3V steel.
I also have medium sized hands and the Lil'C handle is tiny.

This doesn't matter when I put force into the cut, as the forward part of the handle rests in the V of the thumb and the indexfinger.
In this way the musclepower travels all the way from the shoulder, through the arm and hand, to finally reach the edge.
This without the need to use much of the muscles in the hand and this method greatly reduces handfatigue to near zero.

So why the hammer grip?


Regards
Mikael

I don't specifically favor the hammer-grip, it depends on the use of the tool. If you read the review linked or that of the GSO-5.1 I provide images detailing the point. Think about what you typed - the Lil'C handle is too small for a full grip so to achieve a power-cut, you allow the spine-curve (something the Bravo 1 lacks, the HRLM has) to rest in the pocket of your hand. THAT is what reduces fatigue, using the pocket of the hand via that curve. That IS a hammer-grip it is how the handle was designed to be held. But again, the Bravo 1 lacks that curve. To put full force behind the heel of the blade-edge, one will shift his hand so a similar position but without a curve the hand is forced to fit the handle rather than the other way around, and it is prevented from a proper-choke by the spines of the thumb-ramp (which again are pretty non-functional as a striker) or by the sharp nature of the ramp itself. Remove the ramp and the handle still lacks proper curvature along the spine. And then, yes, it is very round and slick, easy to twist especially with wet/cold/tired hands, be it your index or your "long finger" gripping the handle. In the video I show how easy it is to twist vs the HRLM. When I am carving wood or cutting roots & vines (some of my most common uses for these knives), the grain of the material tries to dictate where the blade should go, often not where I want the blade to go. When I feel twist-force, i naturally clamp harder and relax when it is absent, regardless of grip-position. I may shift my thumb up the spine of the blade and leverage my thenar muscles into the cut. The bravo requires a tighter clamp because it is so round and the ramp impedes that leverage shift. When i use a scalpel, its flat handle provides easy indexing, lots of directional control that reduces hand-fatigue (and here we aren't talking about raw force, just dexterity that is also fatiguing). When I use a box-cutter, the shape similarly provides a lot of control especially right at the heel of the blade - see a thumb-ramp there? Nope. Here is an image of a number of smaller knives I use for myriad tasks. Which one do you think is most comfortable for maximum power at the heel of the blade? Which one provides the best indexing/control (i.e. least fatiguing)? Which ones are worst for each?

The Bravo 1 handle is basically a broom-handle with a spike. It is MUCH more comfortable in reverse-grip where the belly-curve fits the pocket of the hand and the fingers can avoid the ramp. The thumb-ramp provides maximum transfer of power and control to the tip for piercing/stabbing/drilling... and that's all.

 

[craytab]

The Bravo 1 handle is basically a broom-handle with a spike. It is MUCH more comfortable in reverse-grip where the belly-curve fits the pocket of the hand and the fingers can avoid the ramp. The thumb-ramp provides maximum transfer of power and control to the tip for piercing/stabbing/drilling... and that's all.

In your opinion.

 

[skyhorse]

Bark river has some good grips imho. I don't understand why some people have such a hard time hanging on to their knife.

 

[craytab]

Bark river has some good grips imho. I don't understand why some people have such a hard time hanging on to their knife.

I agree. My Bravo 1 & 2 just melt into my hand.

 

[pvicenzi]

Handle design is very subjective. We all have different sized hands. No one design is better for everyone. Telling others how a handle should be designed is like telling others what sized pants are best. A big man won't like size 34's very much. That doesn't mean the 34's are poorly designed.

 

[craytab]

Handle design is very subjective. We all have different sized hands. No one design is better for everyone. Telling others how a handle should be designed is like telling others what sized pants are best. A big man won't like size 34's very much. That doesn't mean the 34's are poorly designed.

Very good point. That is why I replied to the infallible condemnation of the Bravo 1 handle with "in your opinion."

 

[Mikael W]

I don't specifically favor the hammer-grip, it depends on the use of the tool. If you read the review linked or that of the GSO-5.1 I provide images detailing the point. Think about what you typed - the Lil'C handle is too small for a full grip so to achieve a power-cut, you allow the spine-curve (something the Bravo 1 lacks, the HRLM has) to rest in the pocket of your hand. THAT is what reduces fatigue, using the pocket of the hand via that curve. That IS a hammer-grip it is how the handle was designed to be held. But again, the Bravo 1 lacks that curve. To put full force behind the heel of the blade-edge, one will shift his hand so a similar position but without a curve the hand is forced to fit the handle rather than the other way around, and it is prevented from a proper-choke by the spines of the thumb-ramp (which again are pretty non-functional as a striker) or by the sharp nature of the ramp itself. Remove the ramp and the handle still lacks proper curvature along the spine. And then, yes, it is very round and slick, easy to twist especially with wet/cold/tired hands, be it your index or your "long finger" gripping the handle. In the video I show how easy it is to twist vs the HRLM. When I am carving wood or cutting roots & vines (some of my most common uses for these knives), the grain of the material tries to dictate where the blade should go, often not where I want the blade to go. When I feel twist-force, i naturally clamp harder and relax when it is absent, regardless of grip-position. I may shift my thumb up the spine of the blade and leverage my thenar muscles into the cut. The bravo requires a tighter clamp because it is so round and the ramp impedes that leverage shift. When i use a scalpel, its flat handle provides easy indexing, lots of directional control that reduces hand-fatigue (and here we aren't talking about raw force, just dexterity that is also fatiguing). When I use a box-cutter, the shape similarly provides a lot of control especially right at the heel of the blade - see a thumb-ramp there? Nope. Here is an image of a number of smaller knives I use for myriad tasks. Which one do you think is most comfortable for maximum power at the heel of the blade? Which one provides the best indexing/control (i.e. least fatiguing)? Which ones are worst for each?

The Bravo 1 handle is basically a broom-handle with a spike. It is MUCH more comfortable in reverse-grip where the belly-curve fits the pocket of the hand and the fingers can avoid the ramp. The thumb-ramp provides maximum transfer of power and control to the tip for piercing/stabbing/drilling... and that's all.

-First, let me say that I stay out of any opinions of the Bravo 1 as a model, as I don't have access to this knife.

"I don't specifically favor the hammer-grip, it depends on the use of the tool. If you read the review linked or that of the GSO-5.1 I provide images detailing the point. "

-Ok, that's fine with me, but it was the grip You showed in Your Video!
I have many knives, that rotates in the hand with that grip.
I rarely use it, not even when using a hammer.
I use a loose grip on most of my tools, as I find that to be less hand fatiguing in extended use. on long working days.


"Think about what you typed - the Lil'C handle is too small for a full grip so to achieve a power-cut, you allow the spine-curve (something the Bravo 1 lacks, the HRLM has) to rest in the pocket of your hand. THAT is what reduces fatigue, using the pocket of the hand via that curve.
That IS a hammer-grip it is how the handle was designed to be held."

-I have knives like the BR Sperati point, with glossy, oval, not curved or profiled shape and it works very well without hand fatigue.


" But again, the Bravo 1 lacks that curve. To put full force behind the heel of the blade-edge, one will shift his hand so a similar position but without a curve the hand is forced to fit the handle rather than the other way around, and it is prevented from a proper-choke by the spines of the thumb-ramp (which again are pretty non-functional as a striker) or by the sharp nature of the ramp itself. Remove the ramp and the handle still lacks proper curvature along the spine. And then, yes, it is very round and slick, easy to twist especially with wet/cold/tired hands, be it your index or your "long finger" gripping the handle. In the video I show how easy it is to twist vs the HRLM."

-Yes I saw this and some models certainly locks better in Your grip than other models.
My experience tells me this is a very ineffective way to hold a knife or a tool, especially when cold, wet and tired.
I'm not fond of sharp corners, thumbramps or jimping and I round the spinecorners of my users.

" When I am carving wood or cutting roots & vines (some of my most common uses for these knives), the grain of the material tries to dictate where the blade should go, often not where I want the blade to go. When I feel twist-force, i naturally clamp harder and relax when it is absent, regardless of grip-position. I may shift my thumb up the spine of the blade and leverage my thenar muscles into the cut. The bravo requires a tighter clamp because it is so round and the ramp impedes that leverage shift."

-When the material tries to direct my cut, I stop and make several smaller cuts, where I am in control of the edge.
I onle see twist force, when I actually twist the knife and again my way of holding the knife, allows me to put more force into the twist.
Here the height and thickness of the handle come into play and a beefy handfilling handle works better.

"When i use a scalpel, its flat handle provides easy indexing, lots of directional control that reduces hand-fatigue (and here we aren't talking about raw force, just dexterity that is also fatiguing). When I use a box-cutter, the shape similarly provides a lot of control especially right at the heel of the blade - see a thumb-ramp there? Nope. "

-Agreed!

"Here is an image of a number of smaller knives I use for myriad tasks. Which one do you think is most comfortable for maximum power at the heel of the blade? Which one provides the best indexing/control (i.e. least fatiguing)? Which ones are worst for each?"

-I would need to use those knives, to really answer that Q!
If the knife to the right is an ESEE Izula, I have used it once.
It was outcut with a wide margin by my Fällkniven WM1!
I do have that model of boxcutter and several barrell handle Scandi's (Mora).
I seldom use boxcutters, but I have a folding model in my toolbox.
Barrelhandled Mora's are another thing and I have used them for more than 50 years.
Yep, they work for me!


Regards
Mikael

BTW that Scandi of Yours is a looker! :thumbup:

 

[Big Mike]

The Bravo 1 handle is basically a broom-handle with a spike...

I don't know what Bravo-1 you've been using, but that's not how the Bark River Bravo Series are shaped.

I've owned or tested every model in the Bark River Bravo Series, excluding the new Bravo-3.

Though they're not my favorite Bark River models, they all had fully 3D contoured handle scales.

I find the knives to index very naturally, and to be very secure in hand; I found them to be very user friendly in extended use.

My experience in introducing other knife users to these knives is that the comments on the fully contoured handles is always very positive.


I don't know where you get your brooms, but most brooms I use have round handles.



Big Mike

 

[craytab]

I don't know what Bravo-1 you've been using, but that's not how the Bark River Bravo Series are shaped.

I've owned or tested every model in the Bark River Bravo Series, excluding the new Bravo-3.

Though they're not my favorite Bark River models, they all had fully 3D contoured handle scales.

I find the knives to index very naturally, and to be very secure in hand; I found them to be very user friendly in extended use.

My experience in introducing other knife users to these knives is that the comments on the fully contoured handles is always very positive.


I don't know where you get your brooms, but most brooms I use have round handles.



Big Mike

Very nice matching set you have there. Here are mine with friends (My newest, the Bravo Necker 2 is not pictured).

 

[Big Mike]

Very nice matching set you have there. Here are mine with friends (My newest, the Bravo Necker 2 is not pictured).

Thank you my friend. :thumbup:

Your photo highlights the three dimensional contouring on the Bravo-2 handle quite nicely.

Love that swedge too.



Big Mike