New BS 889 Fails Spinewhack

[Messersmith]

If anyone knows about whacking the sheet outta a Buck...well, let's just say I call it the "Messy Meter Test".

Gooser: Excessive whacking is not good for you or your Buck.

Thanks for the insight Jimmer.

 

[Buckaholic]

Gooser: Excessive whacking is not good for you or your Buck.

Yes Messy. My high school Health teacher told me the same thing.

That being said, I can understand concern about a locking knife that easily unlocks or doesn't lock at all.
But HARD spine-whacking seems like doing a crash test with a Jetta and expecting the same results when ya crash test a Hummer. The Hummer being analogous to a fixed blade.

I would think that the Messy Meter Baton Test makes more sense. I'd be more inclined in the real world to have my knife used in a situation where I am hitting the spine while the blade is gettting resistance (baton test).

Fortunately, I was able to fix the one 889LE that did have a real world "slipjoint" problem: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4420716&postcount=75

Thanks for the insight Jimmer.

Yes, thanks Jimmer for the details.
Also, good to know that Mr. Buck sent a prototype back to the drawing board to address an issue rather than release the finished product to the public.

Vivi, take Jimmer up on the offer. Buck will take care of you. They just aren't another pretty face in the bar at 2AM.
They are a company that stands behind their goods and word.

 

[chickentrax]

They just aren't another pretty face in the bar at 2AM.

At 2AM, they're *all* pretty...

I still have reservations about sending a knife back to Buck...

 

[Buckaholic]

...I still have reservations about sending a knife back to Buck...

Por que Vestigios de Pollo?

Or, as they say in Mazolaville, Iowa; "Parkay?".

 

[110 Dave]

i have read this thread with interest ...
spine whack is not a test of real life use but a test of the blade lock as i understand...
i can see the point of not real life use ...
that said i have had a blade lock fail and the blade by pass and go back wards pass the lock...
i had put the blade through a plastic ty wrap on pipe ending with the cutting part of the point in contact with the plastic...
on raising the back of the knife to have the point cut the ty wrap the blade by passed the lock and the knife blade folded back-wards. :grumpy::thumbdn:
conversely i have hooked the back side of the point in the same manner and pushed down on the back side to cut said ty wrap with the rear part of the blade and had the lock fail and the blade close and in several cases cut the back of my fingers... :grumpy: :barf: :thumbdn:

i feel it is a good idea to test the lock up of a blade against the
weak direction of the lock however you may do it ...
not in a striking manner but in leverage pressure at least ..
in some cases it is the strength of the pivot pin and frame not spreading as i have seen happen... in any case::::>
any knife were the blade fails to lock in actual use
that that knife needs to be sent in the first time it does it
and not used again!!
to not do so makes it YOUR fault if you get hurt... :foot:

 

[Stainz]

I remember the no-tools-required USN 'float test'. Toss a piece of equipment, tool, or even a toilet off the fantail while at sea... if it floats, it's no good. Shoot holes in it to sink it, lest your friendly Ruskie trawler discover the hidden secrets of a toilet! If it sinks, well, it was good. That seems as appropriate as a whacko test to a liner lock. The dynamics involved, and the spring of the locking steel can make a great folder fail. A 'lite' test may be appropriate, however. I use a NDT - a basic 'static' test - just press on the spine. Of course, we are all individuals... and that may be inappopriate for some. YMMV.

Stainz

 

[CJ Buck]

People buy locking folders for a reason. The blade should not close during use.

With lockbacks (like our folding hunter #110) once you get the lock to fail it is never the same again. The shape of the rocker engagement is damaged and will get reduced with every failure. In that case "spinewhacking" can become a self fulfilling quality issue.

In an interesting story, back in the late 80's we did a collaboration with a custom knifemaker named Scott Sawby. He had invented a unique lock where you push the open blade "up" to unlock it. It involved a spring that caused an engagement and when you "spinewhacked" it the sudded stop of the forward momentum would compress the spring and unlock the blade. It failed the spinewhack test even though it was a perfectly good locking knife nonetheless...we discontinued the product because we felt that was easier then re-educating our entire marketplace.

In a related story our then VP Sales, Charlie Gregory, was explaining to one of our international distributors at the Shot Show why we were pulling the knives off the market and he spinewhacked the knife against the heel of his shoe...only to have the razor sharp knife close on his thumb...is much more humorous now than it was at the time.

With all that said the spinewhack test is a destructive test and should be treated as such.

 

[Vivi]

I'll be taking the knife in question to the post office today, just so you guys are aware. Thanks for the assistance.

EDIT: NEvermind, I can't find the address to send it in and I have to go meet someone for lunch so no time to keep searching. I would appreciate it if someone could post it for me. I just remember needing to write BK Inc. instead of Buck Knives...but forgot the rest. =/ It'll get sent out tomorrow.

 

[Daniel]

People buy locking folders for a reason. The blade should not close during use.

With lockbacks (like our folding hunter #110) once you get the lock to fail it is never the same again. The shape of the rocker engagement is damaged and will get reduced with every failure. In that case "spinewhacking" can become a self fulfilling quality issue.

In an interesting story, back in the late 80's we did a collaboration with a custom knifemaker named Scott Sawby. He had invented a unique lock where you push the open blade "up" to unlock it. It involved a spring that caused an engagement and when you "spinewhacked" it the sudded stop of the forward momentum would compress the spring and unlock the blade. It failed the spinewhack test even though it was a perfectly good locking knife nonetheless...we discontinued the product because we felt that was easier then re-educating our entire marketplace.

In a related story our then VP Sales, Charlie Gregory, was explaining to one of our international distributors at the Shot Show why we were pulling the knives off the market and he spinewhacked the knife against the heel of his shoe...only to have the razor sharp knife close on his thumb...is much more humorous now than it was at the time.

With all that said the spinewhack test is a destructive test and should be treated as such.

This is interesting information! Thanks.

I always wondered why Buck stopped selling the Sawby collaborations. That is very unfortunate.

I have several custom Sawby knives and, personally, I have never had a problem with the locking mechanism. I also have a Bradshaw that incorporates the same lock and it works great!

 

[wh4f]

I can't find the address to send it in... I would appreciate it if someone could post it for me.

Straight from Bucks website, Good luck:

How to Obtain Warranty Performance
Describe your problem
Write a note describing the problem with your knife. On the note, be sure to include your name, address, phone number and e-mail address (if applicable).


Wrap your knife
For safety and protection of your knife, please clean it, then put it in the sheath, if you have one. If not, please clean and wrap your knife (cardboard works well) so that it is protected during shipping and that the point does not cut through the packaging (particularly for fixed blade knives). After we have worked on your knife, we will return it in your sheath (or in a cardboard sleeve if no sheath was sent).


Package your knife
Packaging your knife in a box is preferred, but a padded envelope may also work, provided your knife is not too heavy or too bulky. Please put some packing around the knife so it does not roll around inside your package. Please use tape rather than staples for sealing your package.


Send your knife to us
To protect you against the possibility of loss of your knife, we recommend insuring your parcel and sending it trackable by certified receipt (at your expense). Note that cost of shipping your knife to the Buck factory and knife loss are not covered by our warranty. When your knife has been repaired, we will return it postage paid to you. Send your parcel to:

Buck Knives
Customer Service
660 S. Lochsa St
Post Falls, ID 83854
(800) 326-2825 x184
We make our best effort to repair and return your knife to you within four weeks of receipt.

 

[ahgar]

I had an 889 and it failed the spinewhack test but honestly it didn't keep me from carrying it. I contacted Buck and they were more than helpful and advised me to send it back and they would take care of it. I never did manage to get around to sending it back so i guess it didn't bother me that bad. I screwed up and traded it off but i hope to get another one soon. still a good knive just don't whack it. ahgar

 

[Joe Houser]

Quote "I always wondered why Buck stopped selling the Sawby collaborations. That is very unfortunate.

I have several custom Sawby knives and, personally, I have never had a problem with the locking mechanism. I also have a Bradshaw that incorporates the same lock and it works great!" end quote

My sentiments exactly! What a nice series of knives those were and I really did not feel that the spine wack test was relevant to the knife's safety at all.
Personally, I don't feel the test is a good one. But then again, I don't expect my hammer to cut a paper thin slice of tomato either. But I'm just funny like that.

Vivi, if you have not yet sent in the knife, make sure you send it to my attention, Joe Houser, and I will make sure I get it taken care of and back to you right away. With all that has been said about this subject, I would only add that it sounds like yours needs to be serviced. As you described, you did not apply a whole lot of pressure to get the failure so we really need to see whats going on and take care of it for you.

 

[allenC]

There's nothing destructive about the spine-whack-test.
You don't need to use much force to determine if the lock is reliable and properly constructed, and it does not harm the knife in any way.
Use about as much force as you would to swat an insect on your arm.
If the lock is defective it will fold with virtually no resistance.

 

[Vivi]

I heard from Buck today. I don't remember the ladies name I talked to, but she was very polite and helpful in answering my questions. To sum up what she said, they took a good look at my knife and tested it and in their eyes the force needed to close the lock was enough to consider it a properly working knife, so they're mailing it back to me.

I think I'll carry it and give it some regular use and see how it holds up, but I'm still wary of carrying a knife that last time I handled it could fold under wrist snaps to the spine.