New Buck steel?

[mnblade]

Well, the old 440C held an edge, if you could get it there. I must have worn out a couple of Arkansas stones sharpening my Bucks and a buddy's, as well (this was pre-diamond hones). I still have an Ultralite in 440C in the tackle box. But 420HC is a lot easier to sharpen; maybe Buck's Edge 2X geometry has something to do with that.

I agree. For real-world uses, not a darn thing wrong with 420HC.

 

[BG42EDGE]

Not long ago, we had this thread.

How about the Buckscript 110 at SMKW??

It just says "High Carbon Stainless." (Not 420HC)

That's a new one for me on a Buck knife.

What's it all about? Is it made in U.S.?

Everybody seemed willing to assume an answer (that it WAS INDEED 420HC) but nobody from Buck ever commented.

Remember?

 

[Flatlander1963]

If I could clarify:
The Chinese alloy that has been labeled 440A is not exactly 440A, but its performance is similar to that of 440A. Same for the alloy that has been labeled 420HC. It is not exactly the same as the 420HC alloy that Buck uses in Idaho, but its performance is similar.

This is a problem that Benchmade and Spyderco also had. When Spyderco first started doing work with a Chinese supplier, the supplier told Spyderco that the alloy in question was 440C. Spyderco did an analysis on the alloy and found that it was not quite the same, though the performance was similar.

My company has done work with companies in China. We find that, if we specify a certain alloy or material and the Chinese have something they consider equivalent, they use their "equivalent material" without telling us.

So this issue of "exactly what alloy is this in this Chinese product?" is not peculiar to Buck. A switch to the name "400 series alloy" may merely be indicative of a more accurate nomenclature rather than an actual change in alloy by the Chinese.

I believe Knarf has nailed the explanation about steel used in the Chinese manufactured Buck knives. In the end, if you're buying Chinese knives, value is your top concern and if the steel performs to a level described all should be Hunky Dorry. If you care about steel type first and formost you probably don't buy cheap knives anyway.

 

[BG42EDGE]

I don't know.....

I suspect that if a high-quality Buck 124 or 120 or 119 or all three were coming out of China in a tested and verified 440C or other hard-to-get premium steel with a choice of custom handles at about $39.95 per knife.......a large number of people would buy one or maybe several....and some would start collecting them.

 

[Flatlander1963]

BG42,

In my opinion, that's a lot of If'ing that seems extremely unlikely. I recently bought a high quality Chinese (ROC) knife with S30V and other top materials made somewhere else and imported to that country for the knife's manufacture. Yes the manufacturing cost were likely cheaper but not so much that the knife was not still expensive.

I think you do not get a high quality premium steel, premium custom material knife for $39.95 no where it's made. I think you still have to pay for what you get most of the time.

My point was actually about people and not just the knife. So let me try again, I still say people who buy cheap knives made in China or Pakistan or wherever, do so because the price point is their top priority. These people likely only look at a knife as a tool. People that are extremely concerned/aware of the steel type and buy knives based on the fine differences in steels are less likely to have price point as the most important part of their purchase decision and further less likely to buy cheap imported knives.

BKI's should have their labels correct and if being less precise and saying 400 series steel does that, they should. And it probably won't make a bit of difference to the people that buy those imported Buck knives.

Now IF Buck got a Chinese maker to make a replica of a 1975 124 Frontiersman in micarta and 8Cr13MoV that could be sold to me for $40....I'd buy it without a second thought but it would still be a price point decision.

 

[Snotwad]

People that are extremely concerned/aware of the steel type and buy knives based on the fine differences in steels are less likely to have price point as the most important part of their purchase decision and further less likely to buy cheap imported knives.

I think the nail has been struck squarely on the head !

 

[BG42EDGE]

Yeah.....I'll take a few of those 124s, too......but I'll have mine in 440C.



I'm patiently waiting for some official news on what's happening with Buck steel.

I hope they stick with 420HC on anything that's gonna be marked "BUCK" (unless it's BG42, of course.......I could go for that). Any Buck with mystery steel may as well be trademarked as something else. SUCK, maybe.

These marketing strategies must be thunk up by geniuses that are even smarter than me.

 

[THE_LONGBOW]

I wonder if it is possible Buck ships knife blade blanks to China, and then they manufacture the rest of the knife there. It would almost seem cost effective to do this. Then Buck would not have to give heat treat secrets. Just a thought.

 

[David Martin]

People that are extremely concerned/aware of the steel type and buy knives based on the fine differences in steels are less likely to have price point as the most important part of their purchase decision and further less likely to buy cheap imported knives.

I think the nail has been struck squarely on the head !

Count me in on this side of the line ! DM :thumbup:

 

[Buck_110]

deleted

 

[wolfdog]

I wonder if it is possible Buck ships knife blade blanks to China, and then they manufacture the rest of the knife there. It would almost seem cost effective to do this. Then Buck would not have to give heat treat secrets. Just a thought.

It would be anything but cost effective! Steel is heavy and shipping costs are not cheap. Shipping costs are determined by weight. Every type of shipping transport burns some type of fuel. Even a very slow boat will burn too much fuel to make it worthwhile.

This is true. It would open the doors wide to competitors who would use the approximate Chinese steel with relatively similar performance. That is, the average consumer would not be able to tell the difference nor care in the least if the price was significantly lower for the Chinese steel.

 

[knarfeng]

The Buck folks have already posted in an earlier thread that they use Chinese steel for the knives made in China.

They further said that they helped with the heat treat, but did not give them the exact heat treat schedule they use in the Idaho factory. Heat treat isn't just temperatures, it is a schedule of so much time at each temp and time limits for getting from one temp to the next. (heating rate and cooling rate.)