New Collectors - What's Important for me to Know?

Kevin Jones

Kevin Jones

Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
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I believe we all agree that's its important to get new collectors interested in knife collecting and of course to keep them interested once they have started.

Some reasons it's so important may be:
• Anytime we lose a collector it has a negative impact on the market, and without a doubt we will lose collectors for any number of reasons.
• The number of Knifemakers is increasing thus bringing more knives to market so new buyers or collectors are required to keep supply and demand in check to insure a stable market.

What do the veteran collectors among us believe is important for the new collector to learn to be successful in creating collections, staying interested and active in the market?

This subject is most important to Makers and Dealers as they have the biggest stake in this issue considering their investments in equipment and inventory. What do you think is important knowledge for new collectors?

How about new collectors? When I first started I didn’t know what I didn’t know. What are you struggling with in getting started? What information or knowledge is most urgent and / or important to you?
Is there anything the knife collecting community (perhaps more specifically BF Members) can do or do more or less of to help grow or enhance your experience as a collector?
 
Good thread, Kevin. This is my advice from another thread but I will give my perspective to any questions asked. This is a pretty tight knit community so I expect there will be a lot of help offered. We all have our preferences, and perhaps biases, but if we can help the new collector along it will be worth our while in the long run.

"IMHO, a new collector should focus on learning about good fit and finish, the subtleties of design, blade geometry, forging practice/ht and the pros and cons of the various steels/materials popularly used. Do your homework and ask a lot of questions from makers and established collectors who own the style of knives that interest you. Try to make it to shows or visit custom knife shops where you can handle the knives in person to see the difference in balance and ergonomics. Bide your time before you begin to purchase but when you feel ready then try to save up for the highest quality knives you can afford, even if it means buying only a few pieces a year. Try to be patient and (resist impulse buying)."

I want to stress the be patient part, but I do feel this will take some experience before you settle in and decide what you really like, so expect a few bumps in the road.
 
Two completely different reccommendations:

1) Take at least 1 knifemaking class. They are widely available now, and nothing will educate you to the sublety of knife grinding, hand forging, soldering, etc, as doing it yourself - nothing. I did mines at the John C. Campbell in North Carolina. If I were to take one now, I would go take a knife forging class where Don Fogg teaches.

2) Beware of makers who do good work but are only around for a short while, or do not produce enough of an output to stay desireable. Same advice for makers who have retired. That category of knives is very difficult to assess, and IMHO is not for beginners.
 
if we could stray away from abs for a while, what advice would you give to people collecting folders. Jim Burke, Bogi, Galyean, Lee Williams, Onion, Fraley, etc...
 
severedthumbs said:
if we could stray away from abs for a while, what advice would you give to people collecting folders. Jim Burke, Bogi, Galyean, Lee Williams, Onion, Fraley, etc...
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Of course lets stray, as I had ALL collectable knives in mind while starting this thread.
 
if we could stray away from abs for a while, what advice would you give to people collecting folders. Jim Burke, Bogi, Galyean, Lee Williams, Onion, Fraley, etc...
Click to expand...

The advice is the same. Buy the best knife from the best maker at the best price and understand the makers place in the market. I collected tactical folders for 10 years before I bought my first forged knife. My collection evolved in a way that was very natural--I went from collecting knives made by people who make 100-500 knives per year to people who make 10-50 knives per year.

I stopped buying tactical folders when I realized Benchmade and Spyderco were making better tools than 50% of the custom makers with better precision, better locks and better designs. I would always use this benchmark for tactical knives-"Is it better than factory". In some cases, the custom tacticals on the market are no better than factory knives that they claim to be.
Just my .02
 
buy what makes you smile, that goes for knives, woman, guns, cars etc. its Lameys Universal Rule #2
 
I can't see the difference between a $600 bowie and a $1000 bowie. It would be most helpful if I could post a picture of a knife and ask you guys if it is worth $X. That would be the most helpful to me right now.

However, that would put you in the position of critiqueing each other's work and pricing. Assuming you all would not be comfortable with the above idea, would you welcome e-mails so you could privately give that advice? One of you has already done this for me. But 3 opinions on value are better than one.
 
Hi Anthony,

Don't mean to put you on the spot. But exactly which makers are you speaking of when you say that Benchmade and Spyderco are better than?

Are you putting makers such as Carson, Boguszewski, Lum, Onion, Martin, Obenauf, Williams, Terzuola, Fraley, Ryan, Tighe, John W. Smith, Marlowe, Mayo, Hinderer (as examples)?

If not I would be curious to find out which makers you are talking about. Feel free to name names as I did. Just because they use the makers name and design doesn't mean they are similar. There is a reason they sell for 5 - 10 times less.

Also, please include desirability,investment potential and population (how many are made) in your equation. Most factory knives routinely sell for half the MSRP. Where as most of the makers I have listed above get a premium for their knives in the after market.

A used custom knife can be sent back to the maker to be cleaned up and repaired to the point (if they were used and not abused) where they look new).

What is the return policy for factory knives if you want to get one cleaned up?

Price is a one time thing....it is the "cost" that you pay for the rest of the time you own the product.

Ok hypothetical, you are hanging by your nuts from a tree. You can reach into your pocket and pull you a knife to cut your self free. If you don't cut it with one cut you will die. Which knife do you reach for??? The bench made or spyderco copy or the original?

I posted this a few years back during a post with a similar theme, factory vs custom. The guy who touted the factory knives as superior didn't answer the question either.

Anthony, for the sake of the new collectors it is imperative that if you feel that a $50 factory knife is better than a $450 custom knife then you should name names. This will help the collector stay away from that knife and will help the maker realize that they need to increase the quality of their work.

WWG
 
Hi Savage,

When you get close to the $1000 mark for a knife, the price is not merely based on quality or skill of the maker. This is where "market" factors come into play.

Yes, there should be a difference between a $600 and a $1,000 knife. This is usually found in the fit and finish.

Best thing to do is attend a knife show and find a dealer who is selling the types of knives you are looking for. Then compare them side by side and ask questions. You may feel the knives are identical in quality. It is at this point questions that involve, makers position in the market, possible investment potential and demand for a makers work in the after market should be asked.

If the maker of the $1,000 bowie does not hold a better market position, does not have a high demand for his work in the after market and possible ROI is minimal. The decision is easy, with all other construction and material factors being the same or close to the same...buy the $600 knife.

WWG
 
Hi Joss,

Excellent points.

I would add that makers who retire or pass away as a general rule there is a flurry for their work for about 18 months. Those who sell early will make more money than those who sell late. Primarily because the knives from these makers will start to come out of the woodwork.

As well those makers who did not produce enough knives to keep their name out there or did nothing to market themselves will see their knives drop in value in the after market.

My buddy Bob Neal routinely says this to collectors as well with regards to retired and deceased knife makers.. "the knife is worth more today than it will be tomorrow". Why? Because with all the new makers out there trying to get your attention the once well known makers will continue to lose their desirability. There will of course be exceptions to this such as Bill Moran.

As for making a knife...you hit the nail on the head. If you want to know why a custom knife costs so much....try to make one.

WWG
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Don't mean to put you on the spot. But exactly which makers are you speaking of when you say that Benchmade and Spyderco are better than?

Are you putting makers such as Carson, Boguszewski, Lum, Onion, Martin, Obenauf, Williams, Terzuola, Fraley, Ryan, Tighe, John W. Smith, Marlowe, Mayo, Hinderer (as examples)?
Click to expand...

I once sold an Obenauf because I decided it wasn't as well finished as my Sebenza. That was 2-3 yrs ago, I think.
 
Savage,

If you want send me a pic of TKIQ, I'll give you another opinion.

Is our demand letter in the mail to those fiends at Holiday Inn Express?

P
 
The Savage Rabbit said:
I can't see the difference between a $600 bowie and a $1000 bowie. It would be most helpful if I could post a picture of a knife and ask you guys if it is worth $X. That would be the most helpful to me right now.

However, that would put you in the position of critiqueing each other's work and pricing. Assuming you all would not be comfortable with the above idea, would you welcome e-mails so you could privately give that advice? One of you has already done this for me. But 3 opinions on value are better than one.
Click to expand...


Feel free to e-mail me at rogerpinnock@cogeco.ca

WWG is spot on. The differences should rest with who made it, quality of fit and finish and materials used. Pictures don't always tell the story if you are not otherwise familiar with a maker's work.

And on the main topic - NOTHING will teach you more about custom knives than trying to make one yourself.

Roger
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Savage,

When you get close to the $1000 mark for a knife, the price is not merely based on quality or skill of the maker. This is where "market" factors come into play.

Yes, there should be a difference between a $600 and a $1,000 knife. This is usually found in the fit and finish.

Best thing to do is attend a knife show and find a dealer who is selling the types of knives you are looking for. Then compare them side by side and ask questions. You may feel the knives are identical in quality. It is at this point questions that involve, makers position in the market, possible investment potential and demand for a makers work in the after market should be asked.

If the maker of the $1,000 bowie does not hold a better market position, does not have a high demand for his work in the after market and possible ROI is minimal. The decision is easy, with all other construction and material factors being the same or close to the same...buy the $600 knife.

WWG
Click to expand...

Jack, WWG makes a good point here. Very similar to what we were discussing last night in e-mails. You are asking the right questions.
 
Joss said:
Two completely different reccommendations:

1) Take at least 1 knifemaking class. They are widely available now, and nothing will educate you to the sublety of knife grinding, hand forging, soldering, etc, as doing it yourself - nothing. I did mines at the John C. Campbell in North Carolina. If I were to take one now, I would go take a knife forging class where Don Fogg teaches.
Click to expand...

Joss, great advice. I'm seriously considering taking the Introduction to Bladesmithing course Jerry and JR Cook are teaching in December. Not planning on making knives but feel the experience will be worth the time and cost many times over.
 
Re: custom makers not as good as factory-

WoodWorkGhost said:
Feel free to name names as I did.

A used custom knife can be sent back to the maker to be cleaned up and repaired to the point (if they were used and not abused) where they look new).
Click to expand...


I'm not Anthony, but I have one older name that I've already mentioned in the past due to my experiences with him. Randall Gilbreath. It was the first folder I paid more than $200 for, and in my excitement didn't give it the examination I should have. That thing was a POS, and an absolute danger to carry in a pocket, as the blade would come open. I even made a leather pocket pouch to carry it in, determined to be happy with it. Then it kept falling apart, so I sent it back to the maker for refurbishing. It took nearly two years' worth of excuses before I finally got it back, in worse condition than when I sent it.
 
Collecting knives is just for my amusement.I buy what I like.Satisfaction and a good life are as priceless then the love of my wife.Return on investment, cash flow are for the stock exchange.Thinking at a knife as an investment is for me the destruction of the pleasure a thing of beauty is procuring me.Just enjoy your life ist shorter then we think.
 
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