new concept, what to do?

O

oldMule

Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
5
Hello all, I recently found this forum while trying to find information on knife manufacturing. It’s been great to read through all your posts, it seems like you have a good community here. I’m hoping some of you would be willing to pass along some sage advice.

I’ll start the rest of this by noting that I have zero knife making or design experience. None at all. But have spent a good portion of my life in work or play with a good knife in hand. Over the past few months I have been stewing over a new EDC knife/tool concept. It has mass appeal beyond a specialty blade, but is nowhere on the market. I've looked about everywhere google will take me and can't find it anywhere.

I’ve created a number of concept sketches and have a provisional patent. I’ve talked to two industrial design shops to price moving my concept into CAD and then prototype. Both have done work in the past for large local manufactures (I live in Oregon), and both were stunned that my idea is not on the market. Stunned. They both double checked my market search, and neither could find a similar product.

I shared my idea with an aquaintance that manufactures and sells hunting packs and similar equipment. He was stunned that my idea isn't on the market. Stunned. He checked my research as well, and likewise couldn't find a similar product.

I have since gathered the capital to complete the CAD, have a prototype built, modify the product, and have a preliminary run of product to the market within the next 6 months. If done correctly, over the next several years the product could return that investment in spades.

And here you find me, on the precipice, being urged forward by my friends and family who all think this idea is golden, getting ready to jump into an industry of which I have no clue, thinking to myself how foolish this all feels. So what should I do? Jump. Instead, should I be talking to the local commercial manufacturers about selling/licensing the idea?

Any and all advice is welcome from tips on starting from scratch, to CAD and design, to marketing, to licensing, to suggestions that I just plain shouldn’t bother. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
I think I would look for an industry-savvy investor to help provide funding, advice, direction and he'd get some of the action.
Sonny
 
Were it me, I'd run with it, see how it goes, if it picks up speed a company is bound to sign you on for a collab, whether it turns into a derivative of said design or maybe just a contract for another knife who knows. If this isn't going to set you too far back financially, I would just say go for it.
 
If you really are that confident in the design then there's no reason to not continue! Grab opportunity by the horns! :D
 
Tough call. Best advice I got...if you do go ahead and make "oldMule's doohickey," call it "oldMule's Survival doohickey" and/or "oldMule's Bushcraft doohickey." Survival and Bushcraft are "sexy" these days.

Best of luck to you....I'd love to see it, if you think your patent is secure enough to show your prototype!
 
You should both license for mass production and also make your own customs for one-off sales. This is the direction knifemakers have been going recently.

The reason why I suggest that you license your design/idea is that you will have to accept the fact that your idea will be stolen the minute it hits the streets. Chinese knock-offs & local makers will copy your idea and you will not be able to afford to legally keep them off the market, so you should have a "Brand Name" sell, distribute and protect against copyright infringement for you. Also, you need people with experience, distribution experience, a reputation and marketing experience to help sell your idea. Even if you want to try and run production, distribution & sales by yourself, if you don't have the experience, you will lose money and probably your design.

You should also keep the rights to produce custom hand-mades, because many people will still want something special.
 
marcinek said:
Tough call. Best advice I got...if you do go ahead and make "oldMule's doohickey," call it "oldMule's Survival doohickey" and/or "oldMule's Bushcraft doohickey." Survival and Bushcraft are "sexy" these days.

Best of luck to you....I'd love to see it, if you think your patent is secure enough to show your prototype!
Click to expand...
You could put a camo finish on it and call it "oldMules Tactical doohickey"
or camo finish and a paracord "whatknot" and it would be Tactical/Survival doohickey.
 
Jester60 said:
You could put a camo finish on it and call it "oldMules Tactical doohickey"
or camo finish and a paracord "whatknot" and it would be Tactical/Survival doohickey.
Click to expand...

"Tactical" is out. Even "bushcraft" and "survival" are on the decline. "Zombie" is in rapid decline.

Tough call for what's next....wish I knew!
 
You gotta ask yourself, do you want to be in business or manufacturing? Licensing has less risk, less work overall, and maybe less return. Manufacturing has more headaches, more capital needed, and is a lot of work. You can garner more of the profit if you go into making the product yourself, but you are still short when it comes to marketing the product and distributing.

Do you want your money to work for you, or the other way around?
 
marcinek said:
"Tactical" is out. Even "bushcraft" and "survival" are on the decline. "Zombie" is in rapid decline.

Tough call for what's next....wish I knew!
Click to expand...

The next big fad is "Ummm...it cuts stuff...ya' know?" :D
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm not yet comfortable sharing the concept publically. But I'll let you know where this goes.
 
CAD shouldn't be expensive and maybe even free. There are free programs out there that do a pretty good job and should definitely handle something as simple as a knife. You could then send each piece to a rapid prototyping company so no one company knows what it is. Or send the whole thing to one company and have them sign a non disclosure agreement. It won't be super strong but then you could see how it goes together and if it will work the way you plan. Once you have that you can proceed and either approach knife companies or have the pieces made by a shop with a waterjet and maybe some knife experience. But making a quality knife without knowing the ins and outs could be risky as you will have to lay money out. First step I think would be protecting your idea and building a prototype. Good luck in your venture.
 
If it's that good, you could do a Kickstarter to fund production once the patent is granted.
 
I agree that it would be difficult to keep the idea from being copied. Enforcement of your patent would be your problem and trying to sue those who copied could take lots of $$$$ and time especially if they have the big bucks. But, You would get the initial sales and profit and if you do a good job people will always want the original. Look at products like Leatherman. Ther are tons of cheap knock offs and Leatherman still sells a ton. I am a Gerber Multitool guy, but, I won't touch a cheapo knock off.

If it were my idea I would find a honest craftsman with good skills and pay him to make me the original prototypes. I believe there are plenty of honest ones out there. Not sure how to sift through them. But, I know who I would approach. I also know from my cousin, who has been involved in the CNC machining industry at a supervisory level for years, that there are lots of struggling shops out there. If you email me I will tell you who I would talk to and why. imviall@hotmail.com

Any way you go the best of luck.
 
As an attorney I have to chime in here with free legal advice. I agree with CWL....license it for manufacture but reserve for yourself the right to do custom work (yourself or a knife maker of your choosing). If it is an idea that is easily duplicated, you should assume that it will be duplicated in spite of your patent. Enforcing a patent is difficult and expensive. If you have not already done so it might be wise to invest a few dollars in consultation witn a good patent attorney....one who has taken ideas from concept to market.
 
Sonnydaze said:
...I would look for an industry-savvy investor...
Click to expand...
I have two long time friends on board. One just sold a manufactuing business and knows how to get stuff made, shipped, and sold. The other has started and sold off numerous successful businesses throughout his life, and knows how to get a company up and going. I do not yet have a knife guy.


brets-ftw said:
...if this isn't going to set you too far back financially...
Click to expand...
The wife rightfully deemed my sons college fund out of reach, but is ready to clean out the retirement accounts.

CWL said:
...your idea will be stolen the minute it hits the streets, Chinese knock-offs & local makers will copy your idea and you will not be able to afford to legally keep them off the market...
Click to expand...
This is a major major concern. What good is a patent if you can't afford to enforce it?

Jester60 said:
...you could put a camo finish on it...
Click to expand...
Everything looks better in outfitter camo. Everything.

TriviaMonster said:
You gotta ask yourself, do you want to be in business or manufacturing?
Click to expand...
Frankly, after years of coming up with ideas, I REALLY just want to see one make it. But if I had to choose, it would be business, with my money working for me not me for the money.

FortyTwoBlades said:
The next big fad is "Ummm...it cuts stuff...ya' know?"
Click to expand...
Sometimes it is, in fact, that simple.

FlaMtnBkr said:
But making a quality knife without knowing the ins and outs...
Click to expand...
That's my big hang up. If I do something, I want it done right and be a high quality affair. Anyone can run off to China and have a bunch of garbage produced overnight. That's not for me.

gomipile said:
If it's that good, you could do a Kickstarter to fund production once the patent is granted.
Click to expand...
I thought about Kickstarter, but all of their projects looks to be fairly tech-geeky-stuff. I like their format, but I'm not sure its the right platform for a new knife.

drlozier said:
...it might be wise to invest a few dollars in consultation witn a good patent attorney...
Click to expand...
I have a lock down non-disclosure agreement that I'm having everyone sign, which together with my provisional patent should protect me for now. Before moving into tooling for production, I will definietly need to invest in the full patent and seek some legal help.



Thanks again guys. I appreciate every ounce of it.
 
The thing with the patents from what I understand is that here in the states it is somewhat easier well shouldnt say easy but doable to be able to enforce your patent. The problem lies in the chinese knock offs. They are very very good at reverse engineering things and then selling a sub par version. Not saying that you cant get good stuff from there but generally speaking it will not be as good. The problem with enforcing it over seas is just that, you have to take it over seas, then try to identify the actual company that is coping your patent and then say you actually get into enforcing it with said company there will be several others that will do the same thing. Problem with over there also is that a distributor may or may not make them, they will source out to a smaller company and worst of all from a quality stand point is that they may source one company one month then change to a completely different one the next month depending on who can do it cheaper.

That being said most people that value there cash and want a good product will try and buy from the original maker that produces a quality product. I would say go for it.
 
The hardest part will be selling it. It's easy to make prototypes or have some made but if you want to succeed you have to be able to sell them.

Good luck!
 
Kickstarter does not allow knives, if this is a knife.

I have investigated it personally...

I would be Stunned if they allowed it, Stunned!
 
quint said:
The thing with the patents from what I understand is that here in the states it is somewhat easier well shouldnt say easy but doable to be able to enforce your patent. The problem lies in the chinese knock offs. They are very very good at reverse engineering things and then selling a sub par version. Not saying that you cant get good stuff from there but generally speaking it will not be as good. The problem with enforcing it over seas is just that, you have to take it over seas, then try to identify the actual company that is coping your patent and then say you actually get into enforcing it with said company there will be several others that will do the same thing. Problem with over there also is that a distributor may or may not make them, they will source out to a smaller company and worst of all from a quality stand point is that they may source one company one month then change to a completely different one the next month depending on who can do it cheaper.
Click to expand...

A US Patent is meaningless overseas. OP would need an international patent to do what you've described above (go to China and hunt down manufacturer). On the other hand, a US Patent does allow one to pursue a US-based reseller/importer, regardless of who is making the knockoff or where its being made.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top