New CPM Grade

There is no 'best' steel, just the 'best' steel for a given job. It's doubtful they came into this formula because s35vn was failing, they had a specific goal in mind. That being SIMILAR performance with better corrosion resistance. The fact that they've started producing it is evidence of their satisfaction in achieving that goal. You're under no obligation to even try it, much less buy it.

Blackie Collins once told me that there's no such thing as a bad knife steel. If it can be hardened above about 55RC, it will make a perfectly serviceable knife, provided the heat treat and edge geometry are appropriate for the intended task. After that, it's all details. For someone who needs an easily machined super-steel that has good corrosion resistance, at a reasonable price, this might be a dream come true...

Edit: BTW, i would only be interested in this steel for a folder, there are better steels for fixed blades, imo...
 
Larrin said:
The reason that the somewhat better toughness result for 20CV and M390 is puzzling is because of the significantly coarser carbide structure. The finer structure of S45VN would be expected to lead to better ease in machining and sharpening and better resistance to chipping when compared with 20CV. So it could be that another effect (like RA) is what led to a good toughness result in 20CV and would not necessarily show up in the end knife, or would not translate to thin edges.
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That's something I'd love to see properly tested. I'm getting a little tired of hearing how tough M390 is...
 
justjed said:
Blackie Collins once told me that there's no such thing as a bad knife steel. If it can be hardened above about 55RC, it will make a perfectly serviceable knife,
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Reminds me of something a great motorcycle racer once said (forgive me, I believe it was either Mike Hailwood or John Surtees)- you only need 70 horsepower (on a motorcycle of course) to go fast. So what's to gain with all the additional "stuff"?
 
patrickguignot said:
Really disappointed to see the results in Crucible datasheets and in the knifesteelnerds article (thanks a lot Larrin for this very complete article!).

I understand the fact that metallurgy is not computer technology and we cannot expect dramatic improvement of performances every year like in CPU generations.
But S30V was released in 2001 and S35VN was released in 2009 so with this brand new S45VN we should have 10 years of improvement in steel technology and manufacturing.
And what is the result of these 10 years?

S45VN : lower toughness than S35VN and lower wear resistance than S30V. And all of this just for a small increase in corrosion resistance that nobody asked for!

M390/20CV at 61.5 RC is a much better steel.
Better wear resistance (180% vs 143%)
Better corrosion resistance (9.1 vs 8.6)
Equal if not better toughness (according to Larrin's tests).

10 years for nothing...
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It's a minor change, so I wouldn't expect anything significant from the new revision. I'd be okay with any of the S-series CPM steels at this point, as long as they're well heat-treated.

With that being said, I have to admit that I'm not seeing much difference between the steels used in the corrosion testing Larrin conducted. They all look to have developed spots, and none of them did as well as steels like H1 or LC200N would do. The datasheet made it sound like there is a significant difference in corrosion resistance, but IMO that doesn't appear noticeable in practice.
 
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Now I can talk about this steel, see the N in the name, assume it means nitrogen, and not sound stupid! Yes, I thought S35VN for a while had nitrogen and not niobium.

I'm excited about another new nitrogen steel. LC200N and BD1N have been massively impressive, so I welcome any newcomers.
 
Maybe Spyderco will finally faze out S30V in favor of this. Very interesting. I had no idea how far back PM metallurgy goes. I'd been thinking mid 1990's.
 
There has never been a better time to be a steel nerd. Really cool to have Larrin already have the steel researched and ready. Solid work Larrin Larrin you elevate the community Tremendously.

Talked to Frank from nsm nsm at Bladeshow West about S45VN.
I'mma order some Monday and blast the hardness and drop the angles and see what I think about the edge and performance.
The microstructure is finer than S35VN and S30V and produces more of the harder (MC type) carbides for it's given volume so it has my attention.

Looks like the hardness will pop better too. So it looks like a nice domestic Elmax Killer.

Talked to Tim Reeve, good dude, strong head on his shoulders, Chatted with him about the S45VN, he liked it for the ability to get more edge holding without loosing the balance of properties CRK prizes for their wide audience of users. I ask Tim if there was any chance of blasting the HRC for any special models he said nah, they want the ability for people to use a wider range of abrasives to sharpen and don't want to deal with warranty issues of folks complaining about not being able to sharpen.

He is still a big fan of s35vn for it's proven tougheness from his customer reports from around the world.

My opinion on s45vn, Looks like it will be be a good steel for both production guys, and Custom guys like me that "hot rod" steels.

Offers a little more horsepower over s35vn and S30v without significant trade offs and for hot rod guys like me, can get more Stability and Strength over the S30v and S35VN with the smaller Carbides and slightly higher obtainable hardness.

We'll see.
 
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I wonder who the first production or midtech company will offer this. It would be interesting to see if CRK upgrades to this.
 
insta9ves said:
Im wondering about the economy aspect of this steel. Will this be similarly priced as S30V/S35VN or will this be significantly more expensive to produce/procure. If it’s similar to S35VN the market will probably shift over to it in the next few years like how proliferated the S35VN is right now. If it’s more expensive, perhaps it makes more sense to just jump to 20CV/M390?

Larrin Larrin based on your data M390/20CV seems to be better at all 3 aspect - wear resistant, toughness & corrosion resistance. But you also mention that there’s a possibility that 20CV may not be as tough in reality due to the RA in your test sample?

Basically I'm wondering if it even makes sense to produce S45VN if it's as expensive as 20CV/M390, if so, what is the potential advantage over 20CV? Or if it's gonna be a replacement for S30V/S35VN at a lower price range?
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Because of this post I checked the price for a specific thickness and width of S45VN compared to S35VN. The price was actually slightly lower for the S45VN than for S35VN. I'm sure it could be slightly more or less depending on the cut and finish but it appears for now that the price is not going to be an issue. Perhaps with all their experience Crucible was able to create this steel without having to spend too much on the development, just an uneducated guess.
 
EDIT: can't find the source of what I posted, was sure I read it somewhere but *shrug*
 
DeadboxHero said:
There has never been a better time to be a steel nerd. Really cool to have Larrin already have the steel researched and ready. Solid work Larrin Larrin you elevate the community Tremendously.

Talked to Frank from nsm nsm at Bladeshow West about S45VN.
I'mma order some Monday and blast the hardness and drop the angles and see what I think about the edge and performance.
The microstructure is finer than S35VN and S30V and produces more of the harder (MC type) carbides for it's given volume so it has my attention.

Looks like the hardness will pop better too. So it looks like a nice domestic Elmax Killer.

Talked to Tim Reeve, good dude, strong head on his shoulders, Chatted with him about the S45VN, he liked it for the ability to get more edge holding without loosing the balance of properties CRK prizes for their wide audience of users. I ask Tim if there was any chance of blasting the HRC for any special models he said nah, they want the ability for people to use a wider range of abrasives to sharpen and don't want to deal with warranty issues of folks complaining about not being able to sharpen.

He is still a big fan of s35vn for it's proven tougheness from his customer reports from around the world.

My opinion on s45vn, Looks like it will be be a good steel for both production guys, and Custom guys like me that "hot rod" steels.

Offers a little more horsepower over s35vn and S30v without significant trade offs and for hot rod guys like me, can get more Stability and Strength over the S30v and S35VN with the smaller Carbides and slightly higher obtainable hardness.

We'll see.
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"Domestic Elmax killer"

I like the sound of that!
We will definitely have to check this steel out. The added wear resistance and small nitrogen addition seem like they will make for quite a steel. And added hardness!
 
Got my S45VN that I bought from nsm nsm

GavCHBu.jpg


The chemistry for this specific heat NR67663

CPM S45VN

Carbon 1.53%wt
Chromium 16.00%wt
Molybdenum 2.02%wt
Vanadium 3.04%wt
Niobium 0.503%wt
Nitrogen 0.170%wt

Other elements

Manganese 0.49%wt
Silicon 0.51%wt
Nickel 0.25%wt

Impurities (present in all steels at various levels)

Sulphur 0.016 %wt
Phosphorus 0.016%wt

Trace elements
Tungsten 0.03%wt
Cobalt 0.03%wt


-Shawn
 
Love powder steels -- at least, now that diamond hones are available. That said, my latest purchase is a Buck 212 in humble, easy-to-sharpen 420HC. I once came across a 119 lying in the salty bilge of a west coast fishing boat, who knows for how long. Hosed it off, found not a hint of corrosion. Good stuff. Now, I gotta go spend some time honing my Military in S110V... got all morning.
 
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