New federal regulations on ivory sales are in.

Mark Knapp

Mark Knapp

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Dec 20, 2009
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Well after years of fighting the battle, the new federal regulations on the sale of legal ivory within the US are done. Basically, starting July 6th, one month from now, all interstate sale of pre-ban elephant ivory (with few exceptions) will be prohibited. So what this means is, for now, all other forms of ivory are not affected, good news. The sale of pre-ban elephant ivory and items with pre-ban ivory in them, within your state will still be legal. The sale of elephant ivory across state lines will be illegal.

All in all, given what we were up against and what the first drafts looked like, it seems our letter writing and testimonies paid off.
 
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Mark,

Thanks for your effort on this, really appreciated by a lot of us! :thumbup:

-Michael
 
Definitely appreciated as someone who finds the idea of banning the sale of fossils and or bits of extinct animals silly. (Fossil walrus/Mammoth)
 
155440 said:
Definitely appreciated as someone who finds the idea of banning the sale of fossils and or bits of extinct animals silly. (Fossil walrus/Mammoth)
Click to expand...

Don't we all?

Unfortunately, those of us in CA and NY must deal with "silly", because in our states, the fossil material such as you mention is included in the ban, with sale or even possession with intent to sell having been made illegal. In California, it's effective on July 1.

All my favorite folders are now with me forever, whether I like it or not. But that's actually a very good thing. I'll never have a mental thing going on in my head, "should I keep this or sell it?".

And yes, Mark, you have done us all a huge service by your relentless attention to the progress of the ban. And I for one am very appreciative.

Bob
 
Mark,
Thank you for your hard work and efforts. Besides collecting knives, I have been collecting billiard cues for 15 years. The ivory talk has been a hot topic for us the last few years because most pool cues contain elephant ivory. I have been in contact with many people that are on the for front of these regulations. And I would like to add their interpretations of the new law. Please feel free to agree or disagree to this. I want nothing more than for all of us to be as educated as possible going forward regarding items containing ivory.
Thank you,
Troy

These are my cliff notes of pages 85-86 of the new regulation.

- All handcrafted items inside the US has to have ivory from before 1990.
- The ivory in the item cannot be the primary source of value, being worth more than 50% of the item or 50% of the volume of the item.
- After July 6th, no sales of raw ivory (tusks, pieces) will be legal.
- Total weight of ivory in item cannot weigh more than 200 grams.

This is the big one
- Any item manufactured before July 6th that complys with above, can be shipped over state lines. Any item manufactured after July 6th that complys with the above, can only be sold in your state and not shipped over state lines.
- As it's written, you can also still travel with your item containing ivory.

It basically comes out and says that they are elimimanating the big ivory sales (dealers who sell raw ivory, tusks etc.)
 
Mark Knapp said:
Well after years of fighting the battle, the new federal regulations on the sale of legal ivory within the US are done. Basically, starting July 6th, one month from now, all interstate sale of pre-ban elephant ivory (with few exceptions) will be prohibited. So what this means is, for now, all other forms of ivory are not affected, good news. The sale of pre-ban elephant ivory and items with pre-ban ivory in them, within your state will still be legal. The sale of elephant ivory across state lines will be illegal.
Click to expand...

I should caution that there are a number of "gotchas" in the final rule that are not particularly apparent at a first read. Knife Rights' and other organizations' lawyers are going through the rule and we expect to be publishing a fairly comprehensive review of the rule and the actual effect it will have on ivory owners, hopefully be end of the week, but we all want to make sure we cover all the bases and that we are all agreed on these issues to prevent confusion. If that takes a few extra days, so be it. Thanks for your patience.

Mark Knapp said:
All in all, given what we were up against and what the first drafts looked like, it seems our letter writing and testimonies paid off.
Click to expand...

Agreed. All of our efforts did result in a far more lenient rule than was initially presented. So, it's not good, but it could have been far worse.
 
I'm confused. :confused: From what I have read, it sounds like guns and knives with elephant ivory grips and handles are exempt.


Excerpt from the Federal Register:

"We will not require ivory components to be removed from an item to be weighed. Because we proposed the 200-gram limit with a particular suite of existing items in mind, including certain musical instruments, knife and gun grips, and certain household and decorative items, we already have a good understanding of the types of items that qualify for the de minimis exception."

Excerpt from NPR:

Regulators, though, say they have carved out protections for gun owners. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe said in a statement:

"We listened carefully to the legitimate concerns raised by various stakeholder groups and, as a result, are allowing commonsense, narrow exceptions for musicians, musical instrument makers and dealers, gun owners and others to trade items that have minimal amounts of ivory and satisfy other conditions."
 
betzner said:
Don't we all?

Unfortunately, those of us in CA and NY must deal with "silly", because in our states, the fossil material such as you mention is included in the ban, with sale or even possession with intent to sell having been made illegal. In California, it's effective on July 1.

All my favorite folders are now with me forever, whether I like it or not. But that's actually a very good thing. I'll never have a mental thing going on in my head, "should I keep this or sell it?".

And yes, Mark, you have done us all a huge service by your relentless attention to the progress of the ban. And I for one am very appreciative.

Bob
Click to expand...

Hi Bob, I'm sorry to tell you that your quandary to sell or to not sell continues, you are still free to bring your ivory handled knives to any non-communist state to sell them, if you like.

The states where the sale of any ivory is illegal are New York, New Jersey and as Bob said, starting July first california. In one state, Washington it is not legal to sell any elephant ivory.
 
Vinniebabarooch said:
Mark,
Thank you for your hard work and efforts. Besides collecting knives, I have been collecting billiard cues for 15 years. The ivory talk has been a hot topic for us the last few years because most pool cues contain elephant ivory. I have been in contact with many people that are on the for front of these regulations. And I would like to add their interpretations of the new law. Please feel free to agree or disagree to this. I want nothing more than for all of us to be as educated as possible going forward regarding items containing ivory.
Thank you,
Troy

These are my cliff notes of pages 85-86 of the new regulation.

- All handcrafted items inside the US has to have ivory from before 1990.
- The ivory in the item cannot be the primary source of value, being worth more than 50% of the item or 50% of the volume of the item.
- After July 6th, no sales of raw ivory (tusks, pieces) will be legal.
- Total weight of ivory in item cannot weigh more than 200 grams.

This is the big one
- Any item manufactured before July 6th that complys with above, can be shipped over state lines. Any item manufactured after July 6th that complys with the above, can only be sold in your state and not shipped over state lines.
- As it's written, you can also still travel with your item containing ivory.

It basically comes out and says that they are elimimanating the big ivory sales (dealers who sell raw ivory, tusks etc.)
Click to expand...

I agree, that is how it reads, it is a shame that raw ivory will not be able to be sold after that date. If you would like and elephant ivory knife made, buy your materials before July six, this year.
 
Critter said:
I should caution that there are a number of "gotchas" in the final rule that are not particularly apparent at a first read. Knife Rights' and other organizations' lawyers are going through the rule and we expect to be publishing a fairly comprehensive review of the rule and the actual effect it will have on ivory owners, hopefully be end of the week, but we all want to make sure we cover all the bases and that we are all agreed on these issues to prevent confusion. If that takes a few extra days, so be it. Thanks for your patience.



Agreed. All of our efforts did result in a far more lenient rule than was initially presented. So, it's not good, but it could have been far worse.
Click to expand...

Hi Doug, Thank you and the Elephant Protection Association for all you guys have done and continue to do. If you giys out there want to thank someone for your continued right to own and sell ivory handled knives, join the Elephant Protection Association and Knife Rights.

We will eagerly watch for your analysis Doug, and thanks again.
 
TAH said:
I'm confused. :confused: From what I have read, it sounds like guns and knives with elephant ivory grips and handles are exempt.


Excerpt from the Federal Register:

"We will not require ivory components to be removed from an item to be weighed. Because we proposed the 200-gram limit with a particular suite of existing items in mind, including certain musical instruments, knife and gun grips, and certain household and decorative items, we already have a good understanding of the types of items that qualify for the de minimis exception."

Excerpt from NPR:

Regulators, though, say they have carved out protections for gun owners. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe said in a statement:

"We listened carefully to the legitimate concerns raised by various stakeholder groups and, as a result, are allowing commonsense, narrow exceptions for musicians, musical instrument makers and dealers, gun owners and others to trade items that have minimal amounts of ivory and satisfy other conditions."
Click to expand...

Stay tuned, the crux of the matter is in the details. Those things will be legal in all intrastate commerce (inside your state) and may be legal across state lines depending on percentages of ivory in the item and percentage of value that the ivory has (that's as I read it. I will let smarter people than me read it and let us know) Let's see what Doug and his people tell us.
 
Mark Knapp said:
Hi Bob, I'm sorry to tell you that your quandary to sell or to not sell continues, you are still free to bring your ivory handled knives to any non-communist state to sell them, if you like.

The states where the sale of any ivory is illegal are New York, New Jersey and as Bob said, starting July first california. In one state, Washington it is not legal to sell any elephant ivory.
Click to expand...

Mark, as they say, where there's a will, there's a way. But it does raise another rather significant barrier. Still, life goes on.
 
Mark Knapp said:
The states where the sale of any ivory is illegal are New York, New Jersey and as Bob said, starting July first california. In one state, Washington it is not legal to sell any elephant ivory.
Click to expand...

Also, Hawaii effective June 30, 2017
 
Lots of nonsense - this will not do anything to reduce poaching , that will probably increase. There are areas in Africa where there are far too many elephants and there they are destroying the environment !!
What next will the toy stuffed elephant little kids have be confiscated ?
 
What's an ivory thread without pics. I for one will continue to buy ivory.

Peregrine falcon done by scrimshander Rick Bowles.

34sjfvm.jpg
 
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