New freehander here. Need advice

A

AMOB

Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
25
Hey everyone:

I’ve been reading lots of posts on here and I really appreciate all the info. I just got into freehand sharpening. I’ve purchased a Spyderco 306UF stone for touch ups. I also have the sharpmaker. Sal, if you’re reading this, I just bought a Shaman in carbon fiber and S90V. I could use some advice as to how to properly maintain the edge. I guess I’m a little afraid to experiment with the edge because I don’t want to ruin the knife. I haven’t taken it to the sharpmaker yet, but I have run it on the UF bench stone. By the way Sal, the 306UF and the Shaman are both works of art. Any advice anyone can give on a brand new freehander here would be much appreciated. If I use the sharpmaker, should I go 30 degrees? I know Sal has mentioned on here before that he sharpens his S90V at 30 degrees. Do I need DMT stones to reprofile/sharpen and then finish with the 306UF? Just trying to get some advice on how to take care of this beautiful knife. Thanks in advance!
 
I should also mention that I also have a Knives Plus Strop Block. Thanks.
 
Well first the Maintenance forum is the right place for questions like this.
Get a lower cost knife to practice your sharpening. You won't be afraid to try things with it and that's when you will learn the most.
You aren't going to ruin your knife though. Worst case some scratches and a sharpening error that can be worn out.
I assume you are talking about inclusive angle, 30 degrees or 15 degrees per side is fine.
Sharpmakers aren't known for their complete accuracy though. With the benchstone feel for the bevel and follow that when doing touch ups. IIRC the Sharpmaker doesn't give you that many options for angles anyways.
You don't need to reprofile for some time. Really if you're afraid of ruining your knives by sharpening, then reprofiling is the last thing you should think about. You need to learn skills, real world usage, and your own tastes first. Learn basic sharpening first.

The real answer is a lot depends on your own tastes. We all have our own balance between edge life and performance. What you use your knife for, how you do those things, and how much abuse are factors in this. This is another place where a lower cost knife helps you. You get to play with it, use it, and abuse it to learn more. Certainly because that knife is likely to be a softer steel you will end up choosing different angles than for the Shaman, but it all still applies.
 
Welcome to the forums, and I'll 2nd what Ouroborus said about getting something cheaper to practice on. I got a bunch of cheap kitchen knives like you would find at goodwill, but I had them from 3-4 different roommates in college that I had moved around with me as they moved out over the years. They also sharpen a lot easier.

For the S90v blade, I wouldn't worry about maintaining that for now. It will keep an edge a really long time so you shouldn't need to sharpen it for a little while at least. Get good at sharpening first. There is always the option to send that to spyderco for a resharpen for the cost of shipping I think. For the S90v, I find diamond stones, like DMT, worth the investment as it's a hard steel and needs something hard to cut it.

For more "standard" steels, I still really like the feel of a regular sharpening stone. It's a little more therapeutic for me, though I do mostly have diamond stones anymore since I favor high hardness steels on my daily use knives. I use a S110v UKPK several days a week and I don't think I've touched the edge up in several months. S110v is very similar to S90v, FWIW.
 
Thanks guys. All good advice. I have several other knives that are cheaper than the Shaman I could practice with. I do plan on getting a DMT course stone, so maybe I will practice with the cheaper knives before I start fooling with the Shaman. I appreciate all the advice.
 
Ourorboros said:
Well first the Maintenance forum is the right place for questions like this.
Get a lower cost knife to practice your sharpening. You won't be afraid to try things with it and that's when you will learn the most.
You aren't going to ruin your knife though. Worst case some scratches and a sharpening error that can be worn out.
I assume you are talking about inclusive angle, 30 degrees or 15 degrees per side is fine.
Sharpmakers aren't known for their complete accuracy though. With the benchstone feel for the bevel and follow that when doing touch ups. IIRC the Sharpmaker doesn't give you that many options for angles anyways.
You don't need to reprofile for some time. Really if you're afraid of ruining your knives by sharpening, then reprofiling is the last thing you should think about. You need to learn skills, real world usage, and your own tastes first. Learn basic sharpening first.

The real answer is a lot depends on your own tastes. We all have our own balance between edge life and performance. What you use your knife for, how you do those things, and how much abuse are factors in this. This is another place where a lower cost knife helps you. You get to play with it, use it, and abuse it to learn more. Certainly because that knife is likely to be a softer steel you will end up choosing different angles than for the Shaman, but it all still applies.
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Good advice. Thanks for your help.
 
bikerector said:
Welcome to the forums, and I'll 2nd what Ouroborus said about getting something cheaper to practice on. I got a bunch of cheap kitchen knives like you would find at goodwill, but I had them from 3-4 different roommates in college that I had moved around with me as they moved out over the years. They also sharpen a lot easier.

For the S90v blade, I wouldn't worry about maintaining that for now. It will keep an edge a really long time so you shouldn't need to sharpen it for a little while at least. Get good at sharpening first. There is always the option to send that to spyderco for a resharpen for the cost of shipping I think. For the S90v, I find diamond stones, like DMT, worth the investment as it's a hard steel and needs something hard to cut it.

For more "standard" steels, I still really like the feel of a regular sharpening stone. It's a little more therapeutic for me, though I do mostly have diamond stones anymore since I favor high hardness steels on my daily use knives. I use a S110v UKPK several days a week and I don't think I've touched the edge up in several months. S110v is very similar to S90v, FWIW.
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Thank you very much. I look forward to learning as much as I can, as I also find it therapeutic to maintain my knives.
 
AMOB, as I've written in other posts, I was getting a lot of great sharpening info and advice on knife forums but it was in bits and pieces. I didn't start putting the whole thing together until I read The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening by John Juranitch. It took much of the mystery out of sharpening for me and I highly recommend it.
 
MtnHawk1 said:
AMOB, as I've written in other posts, I was getting a lot of great sharpening info and advice on knife forums but it was in bits and pieces. I didn't start putting the whole thing together until I read The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening by John Juranitch. It took much of the mystery out of sharpening for me and I highly recommend it.
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Awesome! Thanks for the recommendation.
 
AMOB, you're welcome!

I'm not down on guided sharpening systems but am a minimalist type and like to keep things as simple as possible (keeps the costs down, too). I get satisfaction from freehand sharpening and it puts a bit of a convex edge on, since it's impossible to keep repeating the exact same angle freehand. I enjoy spending time in the wilderness and it's reassuring to know I can sharpen with a smooth rock, if necessary, especially if a survival or emergency situation were to occur.
 
In my experience S90V and steels like it with extreme Vanadium content will only yield best results from diamond abrasives. I often use the Spyderco UF ceramic to deburr such steels but what "sharpening" they do is more burnishing than metal removal. Ceramic, while very hard is still aluminum oxide and that has its limitations when grinding high alloy steels.

High alloy steels will always favor the coarse edge so anything beyond 800-1000 grit tends to be much to fine for the steel to perform well. The coarse DMT is a favorite of mine for high alloy steels, you can use the ceramic after this stone to aid in burr removal before going to a diamond abrasive coated strop for finishing. This is a very quick and simple way to make very sharp edges but it is also an edge that will last and cut with consistency and control.
 
Jason B. said:
In my experience S90V and steels like it with extreme Vanadium content will only yield best results from diamond abrasives. I often use the Spyderco UF ceramic to deburr such steels but what "sharpening" they do is more burnishing than metal removal. Ceramic, while very hard is still aluminum oxide and that has its limitations when grinding high alloy steels.

High alloy steels will always favor the coarse edge so anything beyond 800-1000 grit tends to be much to fine for the steel to perform well. The coarse DMT is a favorite of mine for high alloy steels, you can use the ceramic after this stone to aid in burr removal before going to a diamond abrasive coated strop for finishing. This is a very quick and simple way to make very sharp edges but it is also an edge that will last and cut with consistency and control.
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Yes, Jason. In all my research and the expert advice on this forum, I've concluded I need to invest in some DMT stones. I'm thinking of getting the coarse, fine, and extra fine stones that DMT makes to make a complete set. Those, along with the Spyderco UF bench stone and strop block I already have should have me well prepared. Thanks for the excellent advice and explanation. You guys are awesome!
 
Jason B. said:
In my experience S90V and steels like it with extreme Vanadium content will only yield best results from diamond abrasives. I often use the Spyderco UF ceramic to deburr such steels but what "sharpening" they do is more burnishing than metal removal. Ceramic, while very hard is still aluminum oxide and that has its limitations when grinding high alloy steels.
Click to expand...
Agree
High alloy steels will always favor the coarse edge so anything beyond 800-1000 grit tends to be much to fine for the steel to perform well. The coarse DMT is a favorite of mine for high alloy steels, you can use the ceramic after this stone to aid in burr removal before going to a diamond abrasive coated strop for finishing. This is a very quick and simple way to make very sharp edges but it is also an edge that will last and cut with consistency and control.
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Not so sure about this one. Take maxamet/k390/rex45 to 1 micron diamond or less and be amazed at not only the edge it takes, but how long it holds it.
Right now, maxamet is my king of hair whittling fine edge holding. It has the highest carbide content and hardness of all the steels I own as well.
 
I was once all about polishing an edge to a minimum of 1 micron, especially on super steels. Then I went off and did a bunch of CATRA testing and I was slapped in the face with reality, polished edges are pretty and can perform decent in some tasks but just can't compare to a coarse edge. The overall edge retention, consistency of the edge performance, predictability of the cut and ease of maintenance to bring the edge back all favor the coarse edge. A coarse edge with a touch of polish will outperform any polished edge, hence the reason nearly all factory edges are coarse machine edges with a Deburr/polish to complete the edge. It's not opinion it's simply fact, coarse edges win the edge retention game.

Truthfully, if it was not for the excessive metal removal I would machine sharpen all knives and use stone sharpening only for blades that require it. Machine edges done right can be amazing and with some knives far better than what hand sharpening could ever do. But... it removes a lot of metal so it can drastically reduce the life of a knife if done often.
 
Maybe we're talking 2 different things.
Are you implying low alloy steels perform better at higher grit than high alloy steels?
 
Jason B., thanks for the great info about coarse edges! I'm already sharpening this way, but it's always good to get confirmation that I'm on the right track.

I have some big wood-chopping knives with SR101, 5160, and 1095 steel. I've always heard that smooth edges are best for chopping hard, dead wood. But, to keep my pack weight down, I also use these knives for more delicate chores, where coarse edges are better, when I'm camping and/or hunting.

Do you think these steels will be ok to chop with at a low grit, say 200-400, or should I go higher to compromise between a coarse and smooth edge?

Thank you...
 
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jpm2 said:
Maybe we're talking 2 different things.
Are you implying low alloy steels perform better at higher grit than high alloy steels?
Click to expand...

No, but i do go a little finer on lower alloy steels. Personal preference more than anything.
 
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