New Govt policy change. NO KNIVES in my building!

Fisher of Men said:
They wrote into the policy (I've read it) that all knives or bladed weapons are considered "Firearms" as far as this policy goes.
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I can't imagine what kind of mental contortions they must have went through to identify knives as "firearms". Maybe you should tell them that according to you, sleeping is now considered work and you'll be collecting your paycheck from bed every week.
 
TorzJohnson said:
I can't imagine what kind of mental contortions they must have went through to identify knives as "firearms".
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Maybe they saw that ballistic knife on Mr. Gerbil's website and thought we all walk around with one of those.
 
TorzJohnson said:
Maybe you should tell them that according to you, sleeping is now considered work and you'll be collecting your paycheck from bed every week.
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Why not? Li'l Abner did it. He was a Mattress Tester. :D
 
Funny thing is we have to go through random drug tests.....I had to empty my pockets at the last one I went in for (about 6 weeks ago) and I had a SAK Climber in my pocket. I put it on the desk before going in the restroom to complete the test.....and they said nothing about it. They did look at it like "wow....a knife" but that's it.

So.....it may be a useless rule :)
 
These kind of rules are a misguided effort to protect ourselves from ourselves, an Orwellian type of security enslaving us from our freedoms.

Benjamin Franklin put quite well when he said "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
 
I just wonder if the NRA would be interested in hearing about this?
Bet they would.
 
Unfortunately, the second amendment to the constitution refers to the right to bear arms, defined most broadly as firearms (e.g. pistols, rifles, guns in general.) Thus the reason for the NRA's existance.

The sticky wicket is that knives, axes, brass knuckles, and assorted other means of self-defense are not constitutionally protected.

Had our founding fathers only been able to see into the future ....
 
I would suggest sending the NRA an email with the detail. They are probably the most knowledgable where different entities stick in some rule that might just be against some law.

All they can do is say they can't help. But you may just be surprised.

Our Guns get taken away, our knives will be next. Count on it. Just ask anyone on here from the UK about their knife laws. We all already know they took away their guns.

NRA looks for real cases of attenpts to take away guns. Maybe they are looking at knives also.

I attended the last NRA convention. Believe me, it was scary all the things that are being done to take away our guns. We snooze, we loose our knives as well. Anti gun people well know that after they get our guns, we will use knives. You can bet they are already working on anti knives.

Sorry for the soap box.
 
Danbo said:
:mad:

So, just as soon as I buy myself a new EDC(Jens Anso Mini Rocklobster) that has a 2.75" blade(the old policy limited us to 3" max blades), they change the fargin policy. Did I mention that this pisses me off to no end? :mad:
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Danbo, is there a cafeteria in your building?

If so, do they use plastic utensils, or stainless flatware? Is food prepared there, and what do they use in place of knives to cut meat and vegetables? :confused:

Is there any work that would not be possible there, if this new ruling were to be followed to the letter?
 
TorzJohnson said:
Maybe you should tell them that according to you, sleeping is now considered work and you'll be collecting your paycheck from bed every week.
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A common work practice among civil servants.
 
I don't know about the rest of the federal employees in this Forum, but I have carried a copy of 18USC930 ever since 9/11/01 on the theory that, sooner or later, the rent-a-cops hired by the Securities and Exchange Commission were going to try to instigate a "no knife" policy. I check the regulation quite regularly to make certain that it has not been changed and, if and when it is, I will carry the amended version.

Danbo, I would obtain a copy of that regulation and present it to your chief od security and ask him for the basis for his new policy. It won't help where you new Anso knife is concerned, but it will allow you to carry a smaller knife, I should think.
 
FullerH said:
I don't know about the rest of the federal employees in this Forum, but I have carried a copy of 18USC930 ever since 9/11/01 on the theory that, sooner or later, the rent-a-cops hired by the Securities and Exchange Commission were going to try to instigate a "no knife" policy. I check the regulation quite regularly to make certain that it has not been changed and, if and when it is, I will carry the amended version.

Danbo, I would obtain a copy of that regulation and present it to your chief od security and ask him for the basis for his new policy. It won't help where you new Anso knife is concerned, but it will allow you to carry a smaller knife, I should think.
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Unless he talks with his facilities management manager, I don't think this would work. Security guards are contracted out, they might not care, just following whatever their boss says. If you see an FPO in your parking lot, you might want to ask them about this, just be prepared to never carry again and some possible harassment.
 
In my old building, the rent-a-cops were supposed to open the inside doors to the Wall Street Deli restaurant for handicapped people who could not handle the stairs that were the only outside entrance. After 9/11/01, they locked the inside doors for security reasons, but I cannot handle stais very well due to my arthritis. There were also wheelchair bound people in the building. The rent-a-cops did not like having to open the doors, as it meant that one of them had to watch them until the handicapped person came out and the doors could be relocked. I an the others for whom the stairs presented problems raised such a stink that the guards finally started opening them without a fuss, because we were taking down names and pressing complaints. The issue was resolved when Wall Street Deli, which was and is hemmorhaging money, decided to use the security problem as an excuse to close their store in the building. Funny, Mickey D seems to be able to operate there quite well, thank you.

The moral of this story is that you must fight for your rights or you WILL lose them.
 
geothorn said:
Hm...did they give you a reason for the new policy, or is your workplace not a democracy? Sounds more like a dictatorship than a democracy.
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Of course it's a dictatorship. Not many/any offices or companies are "democratic" as far as policy goes. There isn't much arguing to be done about office or company "policy" that won't end up with the words 'Don't let the door hit you on the a$$ on your way out!'

I think that Danbo was venting. I also think that it's an idiotic policy and should be rescinded. But, I don't know if there's any 'chain of command' in Danbo's workplace that could take this BS policy "upstairs," without any/too many feathers getting ruffled along the way, to get it changed back.

GeoThorn
 
Hi Danbo-

Sorry to hear about the absurd policy change at your workplace. While I'm typically supportive of property rights, the rules can be twisted by nervous, power-grabbing statists and other pantywaists to suit their own prejudices.

For example, knives are forbidden at The Empire State Building as if stabbing someone at street level on the corner of 34th Street & Broadway is less of a crime than while on the top floor? The same knife you have in your pocket all day as a tourist becomes illegal depending on which Manhattan sites you visit. What happens if they start to make the carrying of keys illegal due to their serrated edge? Better yet, what if experts decided to exclude black people because they're responsible for a far greater percentage of crimes using knives? Many decisions by managers and policymakers are plain wrong and shortsighted. It is enough to make decent, law-abiding people just shake their heads in disbelief. :barf:

The unfortunate situation is that the media is convincing many people to be sheeple that can be manipulated as needed. Few have the fortitude to identify something as completely incorrect and resist going with the flow. Can you simply mail yourself a decent knife that you can use at your discretion in the office? Lock it in your desk and have another one waiting in your car for when you leave work. A tiny knife can ride with you at all other times.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Oh, to Hell with links, here it is in its entirety:
18USC930 said:
From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access
[wais.access.gpo.gov]
[Laws in effect as of January 7, 2003]
[Document not affected by Public Laws enacted between
January 7, 2003 and February 12, 2003]
[CITE: 18USC930]


TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in
Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in
a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to
do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1
year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be
used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be
present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or
attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not
more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of
subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal
facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or
attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided
in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to--
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution
of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a
Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession
is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility,
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not
more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in
paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the
United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders
regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within
any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any
grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ``Federal facility'' means a building or part
thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their
official duties.
(2) The term ``dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device,
instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily
injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a
blade of less than 2\1/2\ inches in length.
(3) The term ``Federal court facility'' means the courtroom,
judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney
conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court
clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal,
probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court
of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility,
and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each
public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be
convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a
Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility,
unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the
case may be.

(Added Pub. L. 100-690, title VI, Sec. 6215(a), Nov. 18, 1988, 102 Stat.
4361; amended Pub. L. 101-647, title XXII, Sec. 2205(a), Nov. 29, 1990,
104 Stat. 4857; Pub. L. 103-322, title VI, Sec. 60014, Sept. 13, 1994,
108 Stat. 1973; Pub. L. 104-294, title VI, Sec. 603(t), (u), Oct. 11,
1996, 110 Stat. 3506; Pub. L. 107-56, title VIII, Sec. 811(b), Oct. 26,
2001, 115 Stat. 381.)

Amendments

2001--Subsec. (c). Pub. L. 107-56 struck out ``or attempts to kill''
after ``A person who kills'', inserted ``or attempts or conspires to do
such an act,'' before ``shall be punished'', and substituted ``1113, and
1117'' for ``and 1113''.
1996--Subsec. (e)(2). Pub. L. 104-294, Sec. 603(t), substituted
``subsection (d)'' for ``subsection (c)''.
Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 104-294, Sec. 603(u)(1), redesignated subsec.
(g), related to posting notice in Federal facilities, as (h).
Subsec. (h). Pub. L. 104-294, Sec. 603(u)(2), substituted ``(e)''
for ``(d)'' wherever appearing.
Pub. L. 104-294, Sec. 603(u)(1), redesignated subsec. (g), related
to posting notice in Federal facilities, as (h).
1994--Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 60014(2), substituted
``(d)'' for ``(c)''.
Subsecs. (c) to (g). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 60014(1), (3), added
subsec. (c) and redesignated former subsecs. (c) to (f) as (d) to (g),
respectively.
1990--Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(1), inserted
``(other than a Federal court facility)'' after ``Federal facility''.
Subsecs. (d), (e). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(2), (3), added
subsec. (d) and redesignated former subsec. (d) as (e). Former subsec.
(e) redesignated (f).
Subsec. (f). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(2), redesignated subsec.
(e) as (f). Former subsec. (f) redesignated (g).
Subsec. (f)(3). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(4), added par. (3).
Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(5), inserted ``and notice
of subsection (d) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance
to each Federal court facility,'' after ``each Federal facility,'', ``or
(d)'' before ``with respect to'', and ``or (d), as the case may be''
before the period.
Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(2), redesignated subsec. (f) as (g).

Effective Date of 1990 Amendment

Section 2205(b) of Pub. L. 101-647 provided that: ``The amendments
made by subsection (a) [amending this section] shall apply to conduct
engaged in after the date of the enactment of this Act [Nov. 29,
1990].''

Section Referred to in Other Sections

This section is referred to in sections 1993, 2332b, 2339A of this
title; title 20 section 1415.
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