New here and Need some steel PlEASE

Kryptoglow

Kryptoglow

Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
651
Hello all.I been buying knives since I was 7-8 yrs old.First ones were found at flea markets.I've started making knives in the last year but have been limited to recycling old knives and using files.I've been reading up on different steels and have decided to make my next one out of 50100-B/0107-6.I have looked at multiple steel producers with no luck.Could someone direct me in the right direction?If someone has some stock I'd be interested.I'm looking for at least 1'x(1/4"-5/16")x2".Thanks and glad to be here.
Dan
 
Last edited:
Welcome. I've always wanted to file down an old blade, but I couldn't bear to part with any of my knives, even if I was just filing it down.
 
Before numbers checks in with the standard reply, you should fill out your profile so people can give you local advise. It took me a minute to figure out what steel you wanted to use, you may have a hard time finding that particular grade but 52100 should be fairly easy to find. I'm not sure if Aldo (he's on here) has it or not but I know others will be able to recommend a dealer for steel, depending on where you are.
 
Thanks for the replys.Profile filled out.I want to use this type of steel because I've watched Cold steel and becker videos and it seems to be the steel that was used.Thanks
Another ? is does anyone know what type leaf spring steel is?I have a few old landcruiser leaf springs.I'd hate to do all the work for a poor knife...
 
I expect you will abe able to find 52100, Aldo does list it.

50100? I don't know.
There is a list of suppliers you can check



Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers v11

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, or you may have a helpful neighbour; but that depends on where you are.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website



Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.
Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

Machine Shop Tools-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable PDF


The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercial quench oils are available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginners book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is now a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days and you will understand it much better.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
They are slow to get new titles and wait times are measured in months,
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
You can also find it on YouTube broken into 4 parts.

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find a list of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo is highly rated.
http://njsteelbaron.com/


Heat Treating
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/about_us.php
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html


Safety Equipment

Respirators

bladsmth said:
Those paper paint masks are about as effective as using a sock for a condom.
Click to expand...

The minimum I would consider are the 3M and North silicone half masks;
even better are the powered positive pressure fresh air systems.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309
 
your leaf springs are probably 5160, but no guarantee on that.
 
Cold steel uses a lot of proprietary steel. They have it made just for them. 50100 is not readily produced though it is listed in the ansii directory. 52100 can be had in round stock readily from mcmaster carr and I am sure Aldo Bruno has some in flat. If not and you want to try a piece I would be happy to send you a sample I forged from round stock. Give me some rough dimensions and your address and I will bang one out for you. You can reach me through my profile, either PM or email.

Take Care
 
The reason I was looking for that type of steel is because of an e-mail I read that was sent from the owner of Blackjack knives to another knife nut.Here's his quote about cold steels stock when it was carbon V.(BELOW)



"I noticed that you and a number of folks have been guessing what this is.

I have posted this before but it appears that a lot of folks have not seeen it.

CV--Chorme Vanadium Steel and Carbon V are all the very same steel.

This is not a mistery steel. It is not a new steel. It had been made by the hundreds of tons For many many ywears and used by ALL the major Knife Companies for Decades.

It is 0170-6 cutlery Steel...It was developed in the 1950's by sharon Steel specifically for Knives.

It is an enhanced 1095. They added Nickel--Chromium and a trace of Vanadium. it was a patented steel of Sharon.

Everybody used it. it was called by cute names by some companies --Chrome-Vanadium by others.

This was the original Steel chosen by both Lynn Thomson for his Trailmaster and me for the Old Mamba. We all used it until 1988.

sharon Steel went Bankrupt in 1988. None of us could get it and no other mill would duplicate it because the papent was still in effect.

We all switched to other steels.

A couple of years ago Case and Camillus Found a mill that would duplicate the Chemistry and they ordered a heat lot--+/_ 100,000 lbs.

Case had thier portion of the heat lot rolled to pocket knife sizes and Camillius had thier portion rolled to use for Lynn on his U.S. made knives and the Becker line.

This was an excellent steel and will out perform 1095. I have used it in a lot of the early Blackjacks. I still have some and made our goloks and Northwind Swords from it.

I have no idea why this question keeps comming up. All of this is common knowledge in the industry.

I suspect that nobody will be using it except for Case, Cammilius, Becker, Westerm and Cold Steel.

As I'm sure you know that Case makes thier knives and Camillius makes all of the other brands that I just mentioned.

I doubt that you will have any better luck relaying this info either. It dosen't seem that folks want the truth.

It's more fun for folks to speculate....................."

I'm just trying to make a survival type knife without paying $200+ for one.Is 0107-6 cutlery steel still available?Should I give up and use something else.What would you guys reccomend?I just want a blade that can handle abuse and stay sharp longer and i don't know where to start.Thanks for the help and future help....
 
It seems you answered your own question in your quote. The mill that made it went out of business. Case had to get a special run done thus it became a proprietary steel. I am not aware of anyone making this steel. The people you might talk to is Niagra Specialty Steel. Aldo Bruno works very closely with them. This is a common problem. Steel companies are discontinuing many steels. This happened with 1084 and W-2. Aldo took the bull by the horns and has been able to do a special run of 1084 just about every year.

There are many steels out there that would fit your needs. W-2 is very popular as it O-1, 52100 and others. Since you were looking at the Chrome Vanadium steel I assume you are willing to care for you knife and do not need stainless. The choice is really up to you. The performance of a steel depends on the maker and the heat treat. Good luck in your quest. I would really recommend you give Aldo a call Here is his website http://njsteelbaron.com/
 
Yes I knew Sharon steel had gone out of business.I just figured someone would be making that recipe again.No I'm not concerned about rust.Rust can be prevented with good care.I just need a strong metal that can hold an edge and sharpen quick enough.Thanks again I'll give Aldo a call.
Dan
 
Hunterdan said:
No I'm not concerned about rust.Rust can be prevented with good care.I just need a strong metal that can hold an edge and sharpen quick enough.
Click to expand...

1080/1084, O1 or 1095 will all serve your purposes, no need to chase down a "special" alloy.

"Carbon V" is very good steel, at least in the 2 Cold Steel knives I own made of it (whatever it is) but it's not really much different than the others I mentioned. Personally I go with precision-ground Starrett O1 for my "carbon steel" blades.
 
Two Words when it comes to Knife Steel: ALDO BRUNO(a.k.a. the New Jersey Steel Baron) you can find him here on the froums
 
Thanks for all the help.I guess I'm like a dog with a bone.Mr. Richards thanks for the link to that steel.Since yesterday I ran across a fella who gave me a breakdown of the steel used in early Blackjack,cold steel and camillus knives .It's the 0107-6c(Below is it's composition)
C.95
Cr.45-48
Cu.46
Mn.40
Ni.03
Si.46
V.19
Now I just need to find the steel that most closely matches it.Why...because that's what I set out to do.Thanks for the help again
 
if corrosion resistance is not a problem, then 5160, w2 and 52100 all can fit you demand.

5160 is tougher, w2 and 52100 will be more wear resistance.

all 3 of them should be easy yo find in market.
 
Patent or not if it was patented in the 50's the patent has expired. The patent office seldom issues a patent for more than 15 or 20 years. I suspect the reason it's no longer made is nobody want's to ante up for a full melt. No steel company is going to run a melt of uncommon steel unless it's paid for. You are talking about a couple hundred thousand pounds of steel. There are companies that will make a small run of a 10,000 or 20,000 lbs or so but they will charge many XXX the price. Maybe as much a 15X Compare the price of steels like s30v and what have you to common stainless' The materials going in may cost a few more pennies per lb. There is a reason the retail markup is huge.
 
C.95............75/.85
Cr.45-48.......40/.60
Cu.46
Mn.40...........30/.50
Ni.03..........<.04
Si.46.............15/.35
V.19..............15/.25

This formula is 80CrV2. It is used in the stone cutting industry. I think this steel is a great formula for forging steel. More Carbon that 5160 and Vanadium. You can't go wrong. I sent out 5 samples of this stuff about 6 months ago. You think I've gotten 1 back yet? Anybody want to try it? I was suppose to get more samples. I'll pursue it if any one is interested.

Aldo
 
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