New KA Insingo-off center

Don't flame me, but EVERY CRK that I have purchased has been perfectly centered... even my Insingo. :)

Hope I don't fuel any fires. Haha...
 
Both my Lg Sebenzas are a wee bit off center. The blade does not hit scale on either so i am ok with it. If it gets worse with time and use I will send them to CRK. IMO people get too anal about these things.
 
First, I'll say that I'm keeping the knife. I can live with a slightly off center blade because I'd rather not go another 2 weeks without a Sebenza in my pocket. I definitely get why people say a Sebenza becomes the yardstick you measure other folders by.
That said, I think that at this price point, and anywhere over $100 really, perfect blade centering should be a gimme. I'm not amazed that my Sage 2 has perfect centering, I'm not amazed when my BM 943 has perfect centering. I expect it, because it's one of the most visible, tangible aspects of fit and finish you get on a knife. Ask people what sets CRK apart from the knives below it, and over and over the answer will be precision, attention to detail and perfect f&f. Is it a deal breaker for me? Not this time. Do mistakes happen at CRK? Of course they do. Is it poor form to discuss those mistakes on a Chris Reeve subforum? Why would it be? That's why we're here. Perhaps the reason people expect perfection from this knife, at this price point is that the dogs come out whenever someone brings up its flaws?
I for one don't understand the members that hang out in manufacturers forums and spring into army ant mode at any perceived negativity towards their knife maker of choice. There's a nice way to say things. You can keep the snark and condescension to yourself, I'm just here to talk knives.
 
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Melvin-Purvis said:
OK, I'll admit it, this made me chuckle a bit... :D
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I'm not really sure what you mean? In my experience with Insingos, I've owned a couple that appeared to be similar, in that they either did have a bit of a flaw with the tip being slightly off-centre, or it was an optical illusion or sorts. From the spine at full thickness, mine appeared well centred, as does the OP's. My take is that only the OP really knows if he can live with it. If he tends to have a bit of OCD(no offence to anyone, but it does seems to be a trait somewhat common with CRK fans based on my years of reading threads) , it will bother him. If not, he'll see it's not a big deal. Personally, I've chosen not to keep Insingos, as I'm not a fan of the false grind.
 
martinlutherbling said:
First, I'll say that I'm keeping the knife. I can live with a slightly off center blade because I'd rather not go another 2 weeks without a Sebenza in my pocket. I definitely get why people say a Sebenza becomes the yardstick you measure other folders by.
That said, I think that at this price point, and anywhere over $100 really, perfect blade centering should be a gimme. I'm not amazed that my Sage 2 has perfect centering, I'm not amazed when my BM 943 has perfect centering. I expect it, because it's one of the most visible, tangible aspects of fit and finish you get on a knife. Ask people what sets CRK apart from the knives below it, and over and over the answer will be precision, attention to detail and perfect f&f. Is it a deal breaker for me? Not this time. Do mistakes happen at CRK? Of course they do. Is it poor form to discuss those mistakes on a Chris Reeve subforum? Why would it be? That's why we're here. Perhaps the reason people expect perfection from this knife, at this price point is that the dogs come out whenever someone brings up its flaws?
I for one don't understand the members that hang out in manufacturers forums and spring into army ant mode at any perceived negativity towards their knife maker of choice. There's a nice way to say things. You can keep the snark and condescension to yourself, I'm just here to talk knives.
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You dont think that this post and your oppening post (and subject line) draw negative attention?

I don't like being refered to as a dog, nor am I springing into army ant mode...I am just trying to urge a little attention on your part to the way you post and say things (assuming you do not want a lot of people formulating an opinion about you). This is a fairly tight community and one in which I value the friendships I have made. I have learned over time that it is critical that opinions and ideas be carefully expressed because in the absence of facial expressions, body language, and (yes, I will say it) reputation, people can and will get the wrong impression...and as they say, first impressions are important.

You may expect all you like...but I will say it again, no knife is perfect. If you think a knife has perfect blade centering, it is just because you do not have the ability or tools to measure it closely enough...because on some level nothing is perfect.

Is is justified to expect a knife for 400 bucks to appear to have perfect blade centering? I cannnot answer that because it is not among my expectations. There is a LOT more to fit and finish, and what makes a knife great than wherer the tip appears relative to the scales when closed (but, yes that is part of it).

Have fun and enjoy your knife. As for enjoying this community...you might want to tone down the accusations a bit. Snark, Dogs, Army ant mode?...I am just seeing an alignment of feelings about an aspect of a knife and your presentation of your perception about it. I am sorry that you feel this way. I have tried to offer insight and solutions for you.

Good luck.
 
martinlutherbling said:
First, I'll say that I'm keeping the knife. I can live with a slightly off center blade because I'd rather not go another 2 weeks without a Sebenza in my pocket. I definitely get why people say a Sebenza becomes the yardstick you measure other folders by.
That said, I think that at this price point, and anywhere over $100 really, perfect blade centering should be a gimme. I'm not amazed that my Sage 2 has perfect centering, I'm not amazed when my BM 943 has perfect centering. I expect it, because it's one of the most visible, tangible aspects of fit and finish you get on a knife. Ask people what sets CRK apart from the knives below it, and over and over the answer will be precision, attention to detail and perfect f&f. Is it a deal breaker for me? Not this time. Do mistakes happen at CRK? Of course they do. Is it poor form to discuss those mistakes on a Chris Reeve subforum? Why would it be? That's why we're here. Perhaps the reason people expect perfection from this knife, at this price point is that the dogs come out whenever someone brings up its flaws?
I for one don't understand the members that hang out in manufacturers forums and spring into army ant mode at any perceived negativity towards their knife maker of choice. There's a nice way to say things. You can keep the snark and condescension to yourself, I'm just here to talk knives.
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I have tried to stay out of this, but it seems there is a lack of understanding on some issues. First..Blade centering,..Personally, as long as the blade is hanging around the middle somewhere,..It's fine with me. Rubbing the scales..not so fine.
Second, when it comes to manufactured parts, unless you want to pay astronomically more for your tools, they will have flaws in some respect or another. Unit is right..The flaws are there if you know what to look for. The CRK line, like any assembly made up of individual parts, has tolerancing specs to be held. This tolerancing spec, for all intents and purposes, is what gives you the level of refinement required by designers and engineers for the task at hand. Certainly, they would all love to give you a perfect tool or part every time for the price you desire. This just isn't possible because of those tolerances, especially where assemblies are concerned.
Here are a few terms that would help if you care to look them up.

Parallelism, perpendicularity, concentricity, true position, surface finish.

These are but a few of the terms Engineers, designers, and machinists all use on a daily basis. When the tolerancing specs used on a single part are close to but not out of range, they are "in print" (within the tolerance specified on the blueprint) . That means they are OK to use in the assembly. Now imagine if you have a few of these types of parts that make up an assembly and they are using every bit of the tolerance given, but are still "in print". This is known as tolerance stacking. It's a numbers game where hopefully, these parts that are on the edge of being junk do not meet during assembly if everyone has done their jobs and kept the parts inspected and taken action on keeping parts running on the nominal spec.

Can these assemblies be matched and made perfect? Sure..It takes time. Time=Money; If everyone believes that the cost is already high, imagine the investment in equipment, tooling and highly skilled personnel, not to mention the metrology equipment that it takes to run places such as CRK, RHK, DDR and other manufacturers. It's astronomical and mind bending the amount of money it takes.

Really, it's funny that we all want perfection with anything we purchase, but as humans, we are by definition imperfect.
So, how do we really ask for this perfection of others, when we are inherently imperfect?

These are the things I ponder. Hopefully, this has viewed as educational and not whipping a dead horse.
 
Unit, you bring up good points. Choosing your words carefully is important when they're all you have to rely on to get your message across. For example, I didn't intend dog to come across as an insult, but rather to say that there are posters, not you specifically and not just in the subforum that behave like self proclaimed guard dogs for their brand. Poor wording on my part. If I insulted you or anyone I apologize, but keep in mind this is a two way street.
Yes, my first post and subject line may have a negative bent. I say that's okay. This forum isn't just for high giving each other about our awesome knives, it's for honest discussion. Sometimes that means complaining. We can all agree that once in a while QC will miss something, we can agree that that's not the end of the world, but i can't talk about being a bit disappointed when it happens to me?
Going back to picking words, a friendly helpful response to my OP could have read "Bummer about the knife. It's just barely off center but if it bothers you, don't sweat it, CRK and KA will take good care of you". Or, as is the case with some knives, "Take it apart and put it back together" or "Check to see the bushings are seated properly", or any number or other things. Instead I get "Don't expect any sympathy. I question why you would even post this here. People will make assumptions about you (still not sure what you're getting at). You lack the perception to find flaws on other knives, etc. " That comes off as snarky and condescending. Like I said, it's a two way street.
Thanks for the other responses. I'm glad I'm not the only one to experience slight centering issues. Sure, I may be nitpicking, but I think we all have to be a bit nitpicky to justify spending hundreds on our pocket knives 😉

Edit/ BHyde, thanks for the words on manufacturing, particularly the bit on tolerance stacking. To address you last point, why do our imperfect selves seek perfection in the objects we buy? Marketing
 
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martinlutherbling said:
Edit/ BHyde, thanks for the words on manufacturing, particularly the bit on tolerance stacking. To address you last point, why do our imperfect selves seek perfection in the objects we buy? Marketing
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No problem..I like to help when I can and usually will answer questions pertaining to anything I may be of help on such as machining and engineering. :)


Forums can be helpful, but sometimes, as Unit stated, there is a lack of visual as well as vocal queues. Inflection in your voice when speaking lets the listener understand some of the meaning behind your words. Without this inflection as well as visual statements, it's hard to interpret meaning unless someone is very clear and well-written. I will find myself re-reading what some write because I have a hard time understanding the meaning they are trying to convey..I really hope I am not alone on this one..THAT would be embarrassing!

Take care and enjoy your knife!
 
martinlutherbling said:
First, I'll say that I'm keeping the knife. I can live with a slightly off center blade because I'd rather not go another 2 weeks without a Sebenza in my pocket. I definitely get why people say a Sebenza becomes the yardstick you measure other folders by.
That said, I think that at this price point, and anywhere over $100 really, perfect blade centering should be a gimme. I'm not amazed that my Sage 2 has perfect centering, I'm not amazed when my BM 943 has perfect centering. I expect it, because it's one of the most visible, tangible aspects of fit and finish you get on a knife. Ask people what sets CRK apart from the knives below it, and over and over the answer will be precision, attention to detail and perfect f&f. Is it a deal breaker for me? Not this time. Do mistakes happen at CRK? Of course they do. Is it poor form to discuss those mistakes on a Chris Reeve subforum? Why would it be? That's why we're here. Perhaps the reason people expect perfection from this knife, at this price point is that the dogs come out whenever someone brings up its flaws?
I for one don't understand the members that hang out in manufacturers forums and spring into army ant mode at any perceived negativity towards their knife maker of choice. There's a nice way to say things. You can keep the snark and condescension to yourself, I'm just here to talk knives.
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First a disclaimer, I have not yet owned a CRK knife, but in time I will...
That said, I have been around knives for a few years, and I have a lot of experience building things. Racing engines, and cars. I have also suffered from being a total 'Perfectionist" my entire life, and only in the last handful of years gotten better. Trust me, being a perfectionist is more a curse than anything else. It makes your life very miserable.

I understand your wanting things perfect. It took me years to grasp the fact that there is no such thing as perfect. It doesn't exist anywhere, and realizing that it made my life easier, and I don't constantly beat myself up over things.
Even the knives you mentioned that are perfectly centered, aren't, unless it is a fluke. If you measured them, I'm sure you would see that. Not with a tape measure though :D
Things can however appear to be perfect. As far as what has changed in people seeking perfection, I blame the internet. You have to remember that those of us here are just a very small percentage of the people that buy knives. I will bet that most of the people that buy them, and don't spend time on forums :o
don't notice most of the "flaws"...

Irregardless of whether you keep it and use it the way it is, or return it for an exchange, you have a very nice knife that you will be able to use for many years, and pass down to your kids if you have any.
 
I kind of skimmed thru all the huge posts, but I have a few CRKS that look just like yours. I think you're good to go.
 
I fully agree, it is a two way street. But when you pull into the negative lane, shouldnt you expect traffic to flow in a negative direction?

With regards to don't expect sympathy. Sorry, I viewed your OP as negative and nit-picky. While I might offer sympathy to someone looking for a solution, I dont offer any to the person that wants to complain (and again, sorry, that is what your post looked like to me, no questions, just declarations of expectations and disappointment).

With regard to why would you post this here. See above. If you were asking for solutions it would be different (but as I stated, it did not appear that you were), if you were just wanting to vent frustrations, you probalby won't get a big audience that is eager to comiserate here in this forum...so hopefully you can understand my confusion as to your motivation for posting as you did. I think it is a stretch to expect people to offer solutions if you do not ask for them...but I am pretty sure I DID post a solution in the first response, and it is the solution that introduces the lowest amount of risk to the individual that already had expressed a certain level of dissatisfaction for the money paid.

As for people formulating opinions about you. I believe there are remarks above insinuating a level of nit-picking that is not warranted for the level of purchase (that is an opinion). It should be obvious to you that I made the mistake of thinking that you were here to complain about the manufacturer in a location known for supporting said manufacturer. I have heard the term "Troll" used to describe this sort of activity (I am not saying you are a troll, but it should be obvious that at least I made such a mistake and held reservations for that possibility initially, and perhaps others might have also?) So you hopefully can understand my cautions to be careful as I can only assume you would not want anyone to wrongfully jump to such a conclusion.

With regard to your perception to spot imperfections. Again, sorry (how many times can I appologize here) but do you now understand (with the aid of bhyde's explanation) that there are tolerances and nothing is ever perfect? Lets take it a step further...lets for the sake of discussion say that you get a package that the tolerances stack to a net 0...is there really zero imperfection, or are we only looking at the first 4 decimal places? It is a slippery slope, but if a person wants to get truly silly, you can argue that 0.00000001 is not 0. It is an extreme way to demonstrate that if you seearch hard enough, you can always find something to be unhappy about, and I promise you this, if you enjoy this hobby long enough, your perception will grow faster than anyone's ability to approach perfection. I have come to accept this as fact...perhaps some day, some how, someone will achieve true perfection (not just a centered blade, but in every aspect)...this pursuit will become a lot less interesting when that happens (because many of us like to see something done really really well, but still realize that there is a future for improvement that we can always look forward to).
 
martinlutherbling said:
Hi all,
I just recieved my Knife Art cf small Insingo. As expected, the knife is pretty much perfect, except for one detail. The blade is ever so slightly off center. The knife is brand new and came like this out of the box. I've tried tightening and loosening the pivot to no effect. I know it's a small detail but at this price point I have to say I expect perfection out of the box. Sorry for the cruddy pic, it's a tough thing to photograph.
View attachment 502036
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I say the same thing for knives as I do for other luxury purchase: if you aren't happy with it, send it back. I wouldn't be happy with that centering either. You should enjoy your purchase or it isn't worth what you paid, whether that's $50 or $500.
 
I recently purchased a small Damascus Sebenza from a different dealer than the one in the OP. It was a tad off center as well, but I took it apart, re-assembled it and now it's dead on.

Now, I suppose one could make the case that it should never have been sent to me with a slightly off-center blade in the first place. However, with just minimal effort issue the was easily corrected without sending it back to CRK. An added benefit is that it gave me a small sense of accomplishment that I took of the issue myself without having to incur the hassle of contacting the dealer or shipping it to CRK.

No offense to the OP intended. Just sharing my experience.
 
No offense taken, in fact that's the kind of response I was looking for in the first place. That said I took the knife apart and put it back together and it looks the same. I did email CRK CS so we'll see what they say.
 
I know this is going to be difficult to believe, but please rest assured that what I am about to post is absolutely true.

Literally minutes after I made the above post, one of the screws fell out of the aforementioned Sebenza. I've had this happen a couple of times since I purchased the knife and I've attributed it to the possibility that I might have accidentally applied some grease to the screw or possibly didn't properly tighten it. I'm now sure that's not the case as I cleaned everything thoroughly when I took down the knife a second time to try to fix this issue and I definitely applied some good torque when tightening it this last time.

So, I'm going to call CRK tomorrow morning and ask them for some advice. I sure don't want to put any purple Loctite on it without talking to them. In any event, it seems sort of ironic or possibly karmic that the screw fell out at this precise moment. :D
 
Tasmaniac said:
I know this is going to be difficult to believe, but please rest assured that what I am about to post is absolutely true.

Literally minutes after I made the above post, one of the screws fell out of the aforementioned Sebenza. I've had this happen a couple of times since I purchased the knife and I've attributed it to the possibility that I might have accidentally applied some grease to the screw or possibly didn't properly tighten it. I'm now sure that's not the case as I cleaned everything thoroughly when I took down the knife a second time to try to fix this issue and I definitely applied some good torque when tightening it this last time.

So, I'm going to call CRK tomorrow morning and ask them for some advice. I sure don't want to put any purple Loctite on it without talking to them. In any event, it seems sort of ironic or possibly karmic that the screw fell out at this precise moment. :D
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Is there a possibility you over torqued it and stripped the screw? You don't need to tighten very much when reassembling. Just enough so that it requires more force to turn further. Let us know what CRK tells you tomorrow!
 
Thanks... I don't think so but it's certainly a possibility. I own several CRKs and I've got some pretty good experience maintaining them. That said, this is the first one I've owned with a loose screw issue and it's certainly possible that I might have over-tightened and stripped it.

I do know with absolute certainty based on past experience that CRK will take care of it one way or another.
 
Gary W. Graley said:
I've never worried much in that regard unless it was scraping the sides and causing untoward damage to the side of the blade.
G2
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Of my small Sebe collection 4 are Users, 3 Safe Queens (for the moment) a couple are as far off as your knife is, most less. But the users are all centered, my thought is also "just cut with it", bet you'll be posting here praises, and that she centered up.

A phone call to CRK would be the best first step IMHO, way before your (welcome) post here. Their cust svc is very good.

Mike B.
 
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