New Knife Maker. Has some questions

I

ILoveTools

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May 24, 2014
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I studied chemical engineering in college and ever since have always wanted to make my own forged knives, swords and tools. I know tons about the chemistry and crystal structure changes in heat treatments and basically have had an in depth knowledge of the science behind it all but last year I decided it was time to start getting my hands dirty. I never did finish college and have worked construction and farming for the last 5 years. I have gone through countless knives and decided I wanted something better. But I am poor and these very nice knives cost a lot. That's when I decided I would just have to learn to make my own. All of my work (practice) so far has been with old lawnmower blades (these are spring steal). I knew this was a perfectly acceptable metal to use and I built my own forge and did my own heat treatments. I learned a lot this last year and made a few mistakes here and there.

I have recently decided to try and take my work to the next level. I would love to be able to make quality knives for sale. I recently bought some CPM 4V that I should be able to make 4 knives from. I am going to make this first batch similar to my most used knife.


I love this blade but am going to slightly change the handle design. No backyard heat treatments for this metal either. I will be sending it off for a professional job. I am wondering what these kinds of knives will sell for. I will have a lot of time and money invested by the time they are finished. I plan on making carbon fiber and or titanium scales for the finished knives and Kydex sheaths. My philosophy has always been function over appearance but these will have both. I am also curious to find someone who has a good place to get their heat treatments done right. I have 1 quote so far for $200. Seems high to me.

So my two questions are EDITED TO REMOVE NON-COMPLIANT CONTENT and is $200 too much for a heat treatment?


Some other stuff I made along the way.

I made this hatchet/tomahawk last week. It is completely forged and I put a patina on it when done. The handle is made from split hickory that I picked a perfect tree to cut down for it. I wish I took a pick when it was just finished and pretty but I've used it a lot since then.



My first knife ever. 1/4 inch thick work horse with homemade micarta scales. It has seen some major abuse but still does the job.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ILoveTools said:
So my two questions are what should I expect to sell these knives for and is $200 too much for a heat treatment?




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Heat treatment recommendation depend on your location, add some info to your profile, at least a country and state

Texas knife-makers supply and others do HT on a cheaper per knife basis.


With your current membership level, you cannot discuss selling anything.


On that top knife, why is there a big bite out of the spine ?

the overall shape of your knife looks like a smile, when it should have a curve like a frown.
 
That bite out of the spine will not be in the next. Overall it feel great in my hand except that part. There were certain issues with the lawnmower blades that I just had to work around. I will add some profile info.
 
The blade size and shape is what I like the best. Its 3.25inch long and I have a much better handle design. But I do appreciate the critisism. I doubt I will be selling any knives here either. I already have way to many that want them from people I know. But I am always trying to be better and know I have a ways to go.
 
Registered users can not discuss selling and pricing. I edited out that content. - Moderator
 
ILoveTools said:
Im not trying to sell anything here..but I guess I missinturpreted the rules and wasted my time on this website.
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Time spent on this site is certainly not wasted. If you read up on the rules, ask questions, take advice (and chastising from Tim to time), you will definitely learn a few things. I've had to take a few bites of humble pie myself as well.
 
When someone asks, "What should I sell this knife for...", or says, "I would love to make quality knives for sale.", those are buying/selling questions. I edited out the most obvious content so you would stay in compliance with the rules. This kept your thread from possibly being closed. I was trying to be helpful.
Knife selling and pricing questions are not allowed anywhere in the forums by registered users. Actual sales have to be in The Exchange, and require a Knifemaker membership.

Stick around and the folks here will gladly answer all your knife making questions.





Your question about the cost of HT was puzzling. HT cost between $10 and $20 for a knife in most cased. Batches of 20 blades can be done for $100 by places like Peter's HT. I don't think I understand why anyone would charge $200 for anything but a large batch of blades. I have had 50 blades done for that by Peter's.
 
I think a lot of new makers can use two things. More humility and a tougher skin. Nobody here is chasing you away or trying to be mean but the rules are there for a reason. You will not find ANYWHERE ELSE on the internet where the people are as willing to help and so generous with their time and knowledge. Back up and approach this place at the proper angle and you will be overwhelmed with some of the best advice and instruction available.
 
To answer the most obvious questoin: $200 is way to much for heat treat of just a couple of blades, unless maybe you have 20 or 30 blades and the heat treater is promising a one day turnaround.

Personally, I'd send them up to Peter's Heat Treat.

Other than that, it looks like you're starting to get the hang of things. Stick around and you'll not regret it.
 
I was hoping that $200 was way too high for ht. I told them 3 or 4 knives and gave dimensions and asked a few places. That was only response I recieved besides, "we can do that". Thanks for mentioning Peter's.

Believe me my feelings werent hurt and I dont get upset over critisism. I felt I wasted my time because no one mentioned anything about a place for ht and well any other question that I do have cant be asked. I just have questions for a different forum or person than here. I came to the wrong place for what I need to know. My bad
 
If what you're looking for is someone to price your pieces for you I suspect you'll have a hard time finding that anywhere. Most people are reluctant to put a price tag on someone else's work, and really, it's your job to figure out what the knife cost you and how much your labor is worth.
That still doesn't mean that this forum isn't for you, check out these threads specifically about pricing:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...rs-For-Sale-Forum?highlight=pricing+your+work

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ow-price-sale-forum-Spin-off)?highlight=Price

Watch the Exchange for a while and see what similar blades are selling for, try the search function for any questions about craft and quality.
 
I got ya and Im not looking to have any prices anymore. I had already figured up my material cost and hours put in long ago. The metal alone was $150 shipped and then I got that quote for a $200ht and I was thinking there is no way I could do this.

I bust my butt for 8/hr on a farm all day and am a single father of 2 boys. I couldnt ever buy a knife with the minimum price tag I came up with. Im just trying to see if I can turn a hobby into something profitable and honestly I dont have a lot that I can spare on a failed attempt. The only reason I even asked is because I have seen a lot of knives sold here but never saw a price. Seems those are mostly kept private. I really appreciate the responses about the ht cost since that makes things seem feasible.

Anyways Im just gunna go for it, see how they turn out, and give it a shot. Even if it doesnt work out, I'll be able to give my sons something pretty cool. A knife their dad handmade. Thank yall for the input.
 
Hey guys I have got a first knife almost ready for heat treat. I am going hand polish and smooth the blade. What y'all think? Any critisism or comments appreciated. I hit the handle shape dead on for my large hands. Feels very secure and when gripped puts the blade at a good angle. I have a lot of work to do still looking for feedback on the general shape.


20140607_103336_zps82cd03e9.jpg
 
Overall it looks good. There are a few obvious places that stick out ( pun intended):
1) The choil is too deep. It should be small and shallow and be a semi-circle. 1/8" is about right
2) The small stub of a guard will get in the way in some cuts and isn't needed. It should be even with the edge for best look and working. You can still change that, which would also make the choil look less oversize.
3) Finger grooves should be shallow and not segregated from the palm swell heavily. The point sticking out will be uncomfortable in use. The bottom of the handle should be a gentle curve, with a small tit separating the finger groove at most. Forget that sub-hilt look on a small blade.
4) The spine needs a more even curve. The handle curves too much, then dips then is straight. then drops straight to the tip. Make all that a smooth curve and it will look and feel better. The thumb rest is rarely of much use.

TIP OF The Day:
You can go back ten times to make a choil or groove deeper, but can't put one stroke of the file back on.

It is best to profile the blank as a smooth curve. Do the butt to tip curve first, and add a smooth curve for the edge. Then shape the basic handle bottom. File in the bevels next....and when all is done, add any features you want. Add them slowly and carefully. Choils and finger grooves are the last to add....sparingly.
 
I am definatley going to make the first guard even with the blade but I have to disagree on the second finger grove. I love it and it fits my hand perfect nor is it unconfortable. I actually like it so much this will be the knife I keep for myself. But he remaining knives will have different handle designs. As for the coil being deep, I did that on purpose because I always seem to lose a bit of edge width when adding my secondary bevel. I like your idea of adding it in last and did that on a couple of my knives.

The fact is I am going to have to make some blades for the masses though and realize this handle is not for everyone. If I get some time I will make some sketches and post them. I actually have a second blank already made but fear posting it up. It probably would look even worse to you. But every knife, I make has a perfect blade for what I want and with a good ht will cut great.
 
Don't forget to drill any holes for for where you're going to put the pins/Corby's in for the scales and any weight reduction, etc BEFORE you send it for HT.
 
It looks sharpened? how much material is left on the cutting edge? If its too thin the cutting edge might warp / become wavy during heat treat. Steel expands in HT so you want enough material to keep it stable.

To be safe leave it at least 0.5mm thick. If its sharp now take it back down.

At least that is what was explained to me by a knife maker, I've never tried HT with it sharp.
 
I'm just getting started with knife making as well. As my background is in graphic design, I've taken a great deal of interest in the aesthetics of blade design. For this reason I was curious as to what your knife would look like taking Stacey's suggestions into mind. Have a look.

kniferevisions.jpg
 
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