New Maddog Photos on the Forum Gallery - 11/30/99

Blackdog

Blackdog

Joined
Apr 27, 1999
Messages
620
Maddog 2020 has just started a new handle project on a Panawal. He's going to send pictures in as the project goes through its different phases. We'll get to see the work in progress. The fist set of pics is the disassembly of the Panawal handle.

Have a look.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=104694&a=890558

Thanks Ray,

Blackdog

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See a quick view of the Gurkha House Line-up http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=104694&a=896858



[This message has been edited by Blackdog (edited 30 November 1999).]
 
Blackdog,

Thanks for getting the pics in there for me. I was kind of surprized by the dissection of the Panawal. It wasn't made like I thought it would have been. The overall weight of the blade was lighter than I thought it would be also. The AK I have is a LOT heavier - I have to find an accurate scale and weigh the two for comparison. May be I am on fumes, and my arms are stronger now.....LOL.

Craig, I have some ideas to improve the design of the Panawal. I think I know what would help with the loose handle issue. Let me know if you want me to send them to you, or post them or whatever....I still have to write them all down (just my two cents worth...lol).

I am not sure when I will start the next stage of it, but it is in the back of my mind all of the time. Unfortunately it is a wicked busy time of year with the holidays, and all that stuff. I will send in pics as I go to you.

FYI - Mike L. should be getting his 'new' GH WW cherry wood khukuri real soon. I will be getting two more handles khukuri's in return (thanks again, Mike L!) - I have to think up of some funky handle shapes to rough out (that only takes a few hours with a rasp - much easier than trying to compress leather washer and all that jazz w/ the Panawal).

My 'ergo' SN1 will be getting sent real soon (you can abuse it and let me know how you like/hate the funky shape...lol). I have to get it boxed up and mailed out - I will let you know when I send it. Thanks for sending me the Panawal to play with! ;-) LOL
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Ray 'md2020'
 
Ray: Great work! You answered the Panawal handle question for me. I had always assumed that the handle was in fact a full tang, and not a "double tang" or "false" full tang (with a welded back side or something). Glad to see the knife is as I advertised (whew!).

The tang looks a lot like the WWIII tang. If you haven't read the post on the handle field report yet, read it. My next order for handle-less khukuris will include full tang handles, which should make handle-meisters (such as yourself) a bit happier.

Craig.
 
Craig,

The front cap (towards the handle) is brazed on to the handle. The rear cap is the standard peened over endcap thing with the little triangle piece. These two parts pinch the two handle halves together. The rivets secure the handle some more.

Quick fix is to use a harder rivet material as opposed to aluminum (I haven't a clue how hard it is fo them to get a hold of some rod brass to use instead). This is easy for us, we can buy a rod of brass out of a catalog.

If they could just leave the handle portion the same thickness as the blade (less grinding, hammering, and filing for them anyway). You could just braze an thick 1/4" brass endcap (or steel), and 'rivet' the wooden scales on to the staight tang. We have the lucky of buying such bolts (I dunno what you call them in knife lingo....lol) and
torquing down on them to sandwich the halves together. Front part doesn't need a cap since the force is going the other direction with the way you swing it to chop with.

Big drawback that comes to mind to this is the SHOCK it will cause one's elbow. The advantage to the way it is now is that it allows for some flex/give to soften the chopping part. Hence this iw why we have wooden handles on axes and not solid steel (due to weight, too). This would also have the whole knife a LOT heavier, too, which in turn would change the entire balance of the khukuri (it should give it a tip light feel).

I am sure that the kami's would have tried this already, and that it may not be a good idea at all. I have to assume their design is for a good reason (why would they do more work for no reason - waste time and effort for something not advanageous?). I am not an engineer (I have a biology degree....LOL), so these are just my thoughts - right, or wrong.
I have no plans of re-inventing the wheel. Just babbling as usual - what do you guys think?

Comments PLEASE!! Unload all ye khukuri nuts!
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Ray 'md2020'

[This message has been edited by maddog2020 (edited 01 December 1999).]
 
Blackdog,

Way cooool
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I think I could use stuff like 3/16", or 1/4" diameter, lengths would be around 2" long, head style flathead/countersunk. What material is this - T6061 Aluminum ?? Steel, or Ti
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I am a packrat, AL - give me some of everything....LOL. Much thanks
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Ray 'md2020'
 
MD: I like your suggestions for the Panawal improvements. I do happen to be one step ahead of you on the weight. When I got my first AK 15 incher (belongs to Steven now), I was impressed enough to order a bunch as REPLACEMENTS for the Panawals. Basically, we'll have the same style, only bigger and more beefy - as the Panawal is meant to be. I think that the Panawal lovers will REALLY LOVE the new AK. BTW, I'm ordering them with scales and also as normal spike tang handles.

As for the Brass Pins, I think I'll add that to my list of stuff to bring with me to Nepal. I won't be able to bring an endless supply, but SOME will be better than none.

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Maddog2020;

6061 is an aluminum alloy with the major alloy elements being magnesium and silicon. It should be expressed as 6061-o for annealed, or -T(with a number code) to designate the heat treatment.

Blackdog;

Some ms20426ad or a rivets would be the obvious choice, unless you want to piss off maddog2020. In that case send him some monel rivets, or some of those damned Boeing ke rivets.

p1445
 
Thanks for considering my suggestion. I have some square brass stock (1/4") if you want me to send you some to take with you - give me a maximum weight limit). They can hammer it in the side to make it roundish. The brass is much harder and shouldn't loosen up as quick as the aluminum ones. Corby type rivets would be ideal (I just looked at a catalog to see what they were called...lol).

When are you headed back over to Nepal?
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Ray 'md2020'


 
P1445,

Glad some one spoke up!
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I don't know much about aircraft rivets - I know if I start banging on one with a hammer and it rounds over too fast that wouldn't be ideal, nor one that is so hard that I can't peen it over....LOL.

Please educate me to what the " ms20426ad or a rivets" are.
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Ray 'md2020'

 
Great photos, and I look forward to seeing how the Panawal project evolves. Ray, I really appreciate the effort that you're putting into improving the design, especially because I'm partial to the Panawal-type handle, even though it has had its problems.
 
Steven F,

I took apart to the Panawal to try to make a leather handled khukuri for fun
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. Both Blackdog and I loved the idea of it.....so, this other stuff just happen to come up in the process.....LOL.

We won't know until we try.
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Ray 'md2020'
 
Maddog,

Will try to get you some spec info on the various types of rivits. I think I have an illustrated catalog at work. Will photocopy the parts that apply and e-mail to you. Tell me what you want and I'll try to get the supplies. Better than the home shopping channel
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P1445 - We may be creating a monster here
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Blackdog


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Visit the GH Forum Photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=104694&a=890558
See a quick view of the Gurkha House Line-up http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=104694&a=896858

 
Maddog2020;

ms20426a6-4

"ms" is military standard(like a mil spec number or sae) this has largely superseded the older "an" number(army-navy).

20426 is the head style, in this case it is a 100 deg countersunk rivet.(used to be an an426)

"a" is the rivet material, in this case 1100 series aluminum(almost pure).

"6" is the diameter in 1/32nds of an inch(i.e. 3/16").

"-4" is the length in 1/16ths(i.e.1/4")

The "ad" rivet is made of 2117 aluminum alloy, and is fairly hard.


I would think the "a" rivets would be plenty strong, espcially if you also used some epoxy to help hold the scales on.

I would suggest you countersink both scale equally. It would probably work best if you inserted the rivets into the handle/scale assembly, then place it head side down on the anvil of your vise. Beat on the rivet tails with the flat part of your ballpeen hamer to swell the rivets in the holes, then peen the tails over with the round part of the hammer to fill the countersink on the tail side.

You will need a 100 deg countersink to use the rivets, if Blackdog can't get you one, let me know I may have an extra one.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask them.



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p1445
Beat it to fit, paint it to match.
 
Maddog,

P1445 spelled it out very well. Once you know how to break down the numbers it's pretty straight forward after that in most cases.

I just e-mailed you a chart that gives the various types of rivits and their associated applications on aircraft. Let me know if it's readable on your end.

Blackdog
 
Thanks for the info, P1445 - I think you left out some details. <VBG> Ok, it makes some sense now.

Blackdog, that scan was fine, and printed great - I can use it for reference. Pretty funky head markings....lots of styles. Good stuff.

Thanks again guys!
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Ray 'md2020'

 
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