New perspective on blade failure

S

sams

Joined
Apr 21, 2001
Messages
1,446
I would like everyone to step back and think for a moment


There are certain designs of khkuries that are made very rugged, i.e. the Ang Khola's.


There are khkuries that are moderate rugged, Sirupati's, gelbu specials, M 43, and variances of such.

There are the Kobra's, Swords, i.e. Tarwar, katanas, Tibetan sword, that are long and slender. these by their make up are more prone to failure if "wacked" too hard and swung out of alignment. It takes years to develop the skill to use a sword properly.

Most of the complaints about the failures are because people are buying from HI and see the "Gaurantee" and go to abuse the blade thinking what the heck if I break it I'll get a new one.

Testing and abusing are two different things............Did you hear me?????


Be realistic and sensible with your khukuries or knives or pistols, or rifles or................?

I saw allot of "newbies" reload bullets with maxium plus in pistols not designed for that heavy of a load. Wammo failure! Same thing here with khukuries.


Lets step back, and think for a moment. Just what the heck are you trying to prove?:confused:
 
As I recall I think Steve Etc. were following the safety testing process recomended by Bill for testing a new kukri ?


Spiral
 
I think Steve had a very unfortunate incident due to an inclusion [welders terminolgoy] in the steel. Not ordinary at all. I trust Steve to tell it like it is!


But I have read many "test" that I consider abusive. ;)
 
I hadnt realised inclusian was just welders speak? I use it in many circumstaces. Think its plain English realy. ;) {Must admit we used to use it in the Iron foundry as well though.]

But sure some people have set out in the past to proove how tough thier kukris are.

That helped build HIs reputation, But sure as I recall Kobras arnt any longer covered for tree felling. :D

I do see your point though, Sam.

But that means each kukri needs to be labeled & sold as choppers or martial, or light duty only or whatever term realy.

Spiral
 
sams said:
I think Steve had a very unfortunate incident due to an inclusion [welders terminolgoy] in the steel. Not ordinary at all. I trust Steve to tell it like it is!


But I have read many "test" that I consider abusive. ;)
Click to expand...

I understand your point Sams, and agree with you to a certain extent, but taking a 21" long 44 oz. knife and chopping 25 times into pine and having it fail is not abuse. What would such a knife be used for if not chopping?

If the handle had been properly constructed and the tang not overheated I really can't think of any chopping task that would be considered abuse.

About the only thing I did on mine that could be construed as abuse was continuing to whack the spine onto a steel anvil _after_ the front ring showed itself to be loose, thereby stressing the handle and tang. Even then it held together.

I think that all this testing folks did on this model was valid. If you can't chop with this one then what good is it? Invalid, abuse type testing or use in my mind would be taking a knife clearly not intended for heavy duty chopping and going to town on it. For instance, as we all found out on the forum, taking a thin bladed 24 oz. FF fighter and chopping hard wood with it, or taking a light kobra and trying to use it repeatedly for heavy chopping.

(Wasn't there some guy in South America that was using or claiming to use a kobra to chop up whole trees, and then trying to get Uncle Bill to send him new knives when they "failed.")

So, I see your point, but this beast was made for heavy cutting, as mine certainly showed.

Norm
 
Yes I agree 100 % sprial. I feel Aunt Yangdu is not prepared for such a "notice" at this time. So it is up to us to inform others, that's what I'm trying to do. For her sake and the sake of HI.

I would also like to take a moment to congratulate Steve for his outstanding support, above and beyond!!!!!!
 
Norm, I have to agree with your assement. I posted on the other thread about you. A true gentleman with no axe to grind.

I will say, anything longer than 18 " I don't think it is a "chopper", unless it is a AK
 
Sams, As you say, there are differences in the type of use each khukuri should be put to. You definitely wouldn't want to fell a tree with a 30" Kobra! So your point is well taken. There have been very few failures through the years that I've been here. Most that I've heard of on this forum were from regulars that post often. I'm sure that Bill and Yangdu have gotten some back that were abused, and some that were sent back because the user had unrealistic expectations.

Some of the khukuris that I buy leave my hands later through the fundraiser that we have to put Sgt. Khadka's son Ram through medical school. Since the guarantee only applies to the original purchaser, I always try my new khuks out to make sure they're ok. I probably would anyway, as I prefer functional pieces to just artwork.

I'm a 5'-5" 150 lb. 53 year old officeworker, so I'm not able really put them through a serious test. :o

Thanks for your perspective and your admirable support of HI!:thumbup:

Steve
 
thank you Steve, I'm 58 and in bad shape. Lymphoid pneumonia. I try to to be realistic as I'm sure your testing was. I would not have bought a museum model other than for display. :)
 
ferguson said:
Sams, As you say, there are differences in the type of use each khukuri should be put to. You definitely wouldn't want to fell a tree with a 30" Kobra! So your point is well taken. There have been very few failures through the years that I've been here. Most that I've heard of on this forum were from regulars that post often. I'm sure that Bill and Yangdu have gotten some back that were abused, and some that were sent back because the user had unrealistic expectations.

Some of the khukuris that I buy leave my hands later through the fundraiser that we have to put Sgt. Khadka's son Ram through medical school. Since the guarantee only applies to the original purchaser, I always try my new khuks out to make sure they're ok. I probably would anyway, as I prefer functional pieces to just artwork.

I'm a 5'-5" 150 lb. 53 year old officeworker, so I'm not able really put them through a serious test. :o

Thanks for your perspective and your admirable support of HI!:thumbup:

Steve
Click to expand...

Steve, I don't think height has anything to do with it. I am taller than you (and far larger around I'm sure!), but that doesn't mean with your arm strength and experience you couldn't hit harder or break 'em faster than anyone!

Of course, you are pretty damned old though! :D ;)

Norm
 
I don't consider what I did to be abusive by any means.

Now, I've abused the hell out of some pieces in the past; when I did, I noted that what I was doing was abusive, recommended that others not do the same, and did so with the understanding that if I broke it, I'd eat the cost. Chopping, light prying, and some hits on the flats aren't abusive to me for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that these tests (and more) have been recommended by the importer as a valid method of proving the piece's quality and detecting flaws.

What I'm trying to prove is that casual misuse isn't going to destroy anything. I can't guarantee a perfect chop every time if I'm fatigued, cold, wet, injured, etc. Likewise, if the proper tool isn't available and a khukuri is, I want to know that the khukuri will suffice. That's why I pay what I pay for these things and that's why I test them like I do. If I wanted something else, I could purchase something else.

I was at it for less than ten minutes yesterday and I don't consider such a short span of time to be hard use. I've used thinner blades with flawed handles far longer and far harder than this. The individual who witnessed my testing is familiar with khukuris and probably would agree that I didn't overdo it but I'll let him discuss that, if he wants to.

I sent Yangdu an email clarifying my position; if in her estimation I used it too hard, I want neither a refund nor a replacement because it was obviously my fault. The MM will be going back to her regardless so that the failure can be inspected and learned from.

I'm hard on tools, but less so on warranties.
 
Dave please understand that I'm not antagonistic, but trying to express a view, opinion, about what a buyer should expect.

The only guaranteed "choppers" should be AK. If you buy some other khukuri, do it as they are not bomb proof regardless what is printed. Everyone should realize when the "money back gaurantee" was advertised, Hi was new, making a name for itself and allot of these "fanatasy" khuks were not even advertised. The gaurantee was based on the old tried and true models.


I just want people to put things in perspective. :)
 
I think what Steve had was a bad blade period,everybody else? well we learned the MM is for whacking people-not trees! just like the Kobra so no one really at fault here,just some bad luck.
 
The only guaranteed "choppers" should be AK.
Click to expand...

Can't quite agree there, Sams. The GRS (baby and daddy) make awsome choppers, as does the 18" WWII. The 16.5 is no slouch, either. My sirus are tough, too, although I don't expect them to send as many chips flying.

I don't think ANY of the blades should snap. Chip, bend, rolled edge maybe.

Yangu hopefully knows that she can amend the warranty without hard feelings (I think, anyway) at any time.
 
Krull said:
I think what Steve had was a bad blade period,everybody else? well we learned the MM is for whacking people-not trees! just like the Kobra so no one really at fault here,just some bad luck.
Click to expand...

Krull, I just don't agree with this, and I'll bet you wouldn't either if you held one. This is a 21" two and a half pound + solid steel knife. Not a spec of wood or brass on it. If a Junge and Samsher and BGRS can be used to chop wood, then this certainly can. It was just a blade failure, and in the case of mine a failure to secure the handle to the front guard properly I think.

Norm
 
We all know Steve got a fluke, did nothing wrong, everything right, so we can stop on that.
I think Sams has a point, a good one.

I can break almost anything, not because I'm real strong, but because sometimes I forget to pay attention to what the tool is for and what it is doing.

Dave Rishar's Tarwar review constantly refers to what is appropriate and then....what Dave is going to do. He did this knowledgably, but many HI buyers do not.

About HI:
The Chiruwa AK was the break one, get two free
The AK was super tough, as were all similar blades, like the Ganga Ram, Samsher, M43 etc.
The WWll, remember, the best combination of work and martial arts. It was not meant to be an AK.
And each of the blades filled a niche, like the Sirupate, martial arts and brush, light wood.

Even within the abilities of a raw chopper, there are limits for tool use.
The banned poster Eikverang came back in another alias and showed the picts of various busted blades. "Do any of you actually use these khukuries?" He challenged.

HI blade testing before shipping yes; customer mis-use, no.


munk
 
sams said:
I would like everyone to step back and think for a moment
There are certain designs of khkuries that are made very rugged, i.e. the Ang Khola's.
There are khkuries that are moderate rugged, Sirupati's, gelbu specials, M 43, and variances of such.
There are the Kobra's, Swords, i.e. Tarwar, katanas, Tibetan sword, that are long and slender. these by their make up are more prone to failure if "wacked" too hard and swung out of alignment. It takes years to develop the skill to use a sword properly.
Most of the complaints about the failures are because people are buying from HI and see the "Gaurantee" and go to abuse the blade thinking what the heck if I break it I'll get a new one.
Testing and abusing are two different things............Did you hear me?????
Be realistic and sensible with your khukuries or knives or pistols, or rifles or................?
I saw allot of "newbies" reload bullets with maxium plus in pistols not designed for that heavy of a load. Wammo failure! Same thing here with khukuries.
Lets step back, and think for a moment. Just what the heck are you trying to prove?:confused:
Click to expand...

safety: http://www.himalayan-imports.com/faq/safety/

testing: http://www.himalayan-imports.com/khuk1.html
the AK surely is a tough knife. the sirupati test is amazing too. cliff is scary hard on knives for the sake of the knowledge base of peoples...

from personal experience and thought... by and large, the chiruwa models of the khukris that are offered, are my favorites, and probably even tougher than their similar hidden tang models... but barring that ...

i'm going to go out there and suggest that any of the GRS, M43, hanshee, samsher, WWII, BDC and pen knives are right up there build-wise size for size with an AK. some of those are even MORE stout seeming than an AK of the same side, especially the M43 and BDC (1/2 thick? yow). heavy duty baby. staple choppers. really.

some, like the gelbu special, that's more than medium duty. it's like having a fast sharp piece of rebar in your FIGHTIN' hand. it'll handle saplings all day. honestly, after using mine, i'll have to laugh at any suggestion it's a wall handle for too dainty for anything but a big block of vermont cheddar.

sure, the more delicate ones, probably you don't want to be chopping down oaks, like with the foxy folly and YCS and dui chirra... but other softer trees and saplings and brush? all day. they're rugged. if not that, then what?

testing... there are things done during a test, that the knife should manage to survive, and in some of the tests something you wouldn't normally do as well... this is not testing to destruction. this is not abuse. example. unless otherwise stated, i can't imagine an HI product that shouldn't excel and some increasingly strong hits against a log, both flats and spine and edge from tip to bolster. some bend tests either in the fork of a tree, or while stuck in a vise/stump. if a mere human bean can flex the blade or snap it with these tests by simple and relatively moderate pressure, then the blade was probably having issues. i can't imagine the amount of pressure, beyond reasonable to even bend a bilton. the handle should not flex, nothing should give. the handle material shouldn't even crack or split. ideally.

a test that i've mentioned before, that gransfor bruks axes uses: they tap their finished product with a soft (brass?) hammer. up and down and around. good quality tough steel with a good heat treat shouldn't even notice. unlike HI, they only guarantee their stuff 20 years, HI is lifetime for orginal owner :> for normal use.

what other tests come to mind? the old file test for temper that UB liked?

to close, as well, the guarantee on the CAK is such that some people might TRY to break them in normal use. has anyone? ever? i'm not talking destructive TESTING on purpose, but normal use, doubt it :>

and remember, even in indaia, they apparently use axes for chopping ;) also remember, even using the right tool for the right job, it has to be maintained, and even then, it can break. like my axe last week or three.

bladite

VOTE for you toughness order! then we assign which one is to be used on what kind of tree/wood/cheese. i'm pulling this out my butt based on what i own, pictures, opinions, and guess work. don't have a stroke, play along ;)

CAK
AK
BDC
Samsher
GRS
AK Bowie
Chit Bowie
Pen Knife
M43
Hanshee
WWII
UBE
Cherokee Rose

YCS
Foxy Folly
Dui Chirra
GS
BAS
Dhankuta
Kothimoda
Malla

Chitlangi
Sirupati
Kobra

and yah, i'm sure i missed someone's personal favorite. add it in.
 
Svashtar said:
Krull, I just don't agree with this, and I'll bet you wouldn't either if you held one. This is a 21" two and a half pound + solid steel knife. Not a spec of wood or brass on it. If a Junge and Samsher and BGRS can be used to chop wood, then this certainly can. It was just a blade failure, and in the case of mine a failure to secure the handle to the front guard properly I think.

Norm
Click to expand...

Well...with the present handel it's a people whacker :D stick another handel on it and it'd probably give the AK a run for it's money.
 
I am sure this will not be well received by the die hard HI loyal fans here that think HI Khukuris can do Super Hero feats and are the best of the best and the only ones to own.

My regaurds to Ferguson, I just got over something simular done with a Kershaw Leek that snapped open at the wrong time and darn near took off a thumb...Get a support for the hand and lower arm that limits use of the hand and live with it for a few weeks, about 6-8 and then take it slow.

As for Khukuri's and the entended purpose and end use....some are NOT meant to be the chop all best blade in the world.

Granted, I am not a Loyal HI Fan but if you do some research you will find there are various grades or classes to the overall knife or Khukuri.

Not every Khukuri was meant for Extreme duty and should not be expected to preform as the give all, best there is.

Sirupate wasn't really intended to chop trees down,

Chainpure is a domestic knife meant for household work.

M43 or World War wasn't meant to chop trees down, more so...chop limbs off of a foe and instill fear in others but they were not built to chop trees down.

I have a bunch of KH Khukuri's and even one HI 12 inch Ang Kol and I would never expect them to chop down a forest....There is a tool for ever task and a limit to every tool and the task at hand. Some are made for the task at hand or hard use and others just look nice......I am gonna stick with my KH tried and proven blades (for the intended purpose) and go from there.

Hard to run a Hands on Plant from Reno, Nv and have a say about what is going on in Nepal.

Karsten
 
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