New perspective on blade failure

Guys, these kuks are works of art. I have a chitlangi that is really pretty, and I have it up on the wall, where it belongs. Even my wife likes it up there. But USE the thing? No way. Dull as a butter knife. Steel so hard you cannot sharpen it without a thousand dollars worth of machinery and even then, who knows? Buy the kuks for what they are, art knives.
If you want to chop things down, go buy an axe. That is what you use to chop things.
 
The_Shadow said:
Guys, these kuks are works of art. I have a chitlangi that is really pretty, and I have it up on the wall, where it belongs. Even my wife likes it up there. But USE the thing? No way. Dull as a butter knife. Steel so hard you cannot sharpen it without a thousand dollars worth of machinery and even then, who knows? Buy the kuks for what they are, art knives.
If you want to chop things down, go buy an axe. That is what you use to chop things.
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Please don't take offense here Shadow, but I disagree completely with your, IMO, ignorant statements here. What the hell do you know about the steel if you haven't sharpened it? Its good carbon steel, properly heat treated to be tough as snot, easy to sharpen, and holds a wicked edge. What the hell do you know about that, or any IMO, khuks capabilities if you haven't used them? Wallhanger. I think not. I am sure HI is appreciative of your moneys, but that is a real khuk on your wall, and it IS made to be used. Until you've sharpened and used a khuk your opinion is based on prejudice. ( I swear that was NOT an attack Shadow, but if you're offended, then I apologize for offending you.)

I can get, and have, every one of my khukuri's sharp as hell without ANY expensive sharpening system. Most of us use sandpaper to accomplish this job. I have taken ALL of my blades out and done some chopping (as was requested by Uncle Bill. ALL of them. The thinner, lighter blades, of course aren't intended to build a log cabin. Thanks for the no brainer.

Jeez guys. Let us not forget that these blades are some of the best, most rugged any of us have ever used. Period.
 
It is true that in Nepal to cut trees over about 4inches diameter they use axes, not kukri.

The kamis make them & they are much cheaper than kukri & they make them very fast, I saw both an axe & a hammer made & dont think either took 20 minutes.

Spiral
 
Andy, if you can sharpen your kuks, then you are better at sharpening than I am, and I swear that is not an attack! It is a compliment!
For me, you are correct, what DO I know about something I have not used? I know that it is beyond ME to sharpen it to any decent degree.
I know that if I am in need of a real knife to do real work, the kuk will not work for ME.
I'm really glad it works for you, and I wish it worked for me, but it does not. Steve offered early on to sharpen it for me, and I was going to send it to him, but then figured why? He might well sharpen it, but what happens when it needs to be resharpened? I can't keep sending it to Steve, and I'm not too interested in using a knife I cannot maintain myself (you know, the self-reliant sort of thing).
Now, I have a Scottish dirk that looks pretty but is too delicate to be used for more than a letter opener.
I have an Arabian dagger that also is authentic (from Saudi) and dull.
The kuk is part of that collection, and as such it was worth what I paid and I'm not an unhappy buyer.
Andy, I really am glad you get use out of your kuks. Really. Of course my opinion is based on my experience. And it sounds like you are much better at sharpening things than I am. That's OK, I'm glad for you. Wish you lived closer, I would come over and ask you to show me what you do!
 
I'm glad you didn't take my post the wrong way Shadow. It wasn't easy to use the word ignorant in there, and I was worried that would offend you. Thanks for understanding.

I understand your collection, and I didn't intend to belittle it, or your motovation for collecting certain knives for strictly demo purposes. I really respect the style demo's you've chosen too. No flashy Klingon crap in there. Good ethnic stuff you've got there. Good on you.

Myself I collect knives to use. Read that as all my collection is scratched up, and some have even been allowed to develope a light 'rust' patina. I beat em up, take em apart, mod them eggrigiously, re-heat treat them, and basically take full liscense with them. I want you to know, and I think this is important, that you're Chianpuri is a fully functional blade with an excellent heat treat, made from easy to work carbon steel. It is sharpenable, and useable.

Remember that one of the reason that HI's swords are such an awesome value is that they are properly made, and treated, so that they are really usable. They are certainly not just wallhanger junk from the home shopping network. (I know thats not what you were saying.)

As to my sharpening skills, I'm no Steve. And I have a couple that he has sent me, so I can tell you surely that I am no Steve. His are sharp and pretty. Mine are sharp and look like hell on a cracker. I'm sure your results would be similar, and I can TOTALY understand you're not wanting to scratch up your beautiful display Chianpuri. But don't discount khuks as wallhangers when in reality they are intended for hard use, and well designed for that purpose.
 
Yeah, I use them also. If I can use them, I do. The Finnish pukka gets used, and it is sharp as it can be. The Chicago Cutlery skinner gets a workout every hunting season. The Buck knives do the bulk of it all, and they are my all time functional favorites. I have a Spanish Navarro that is also sharp, but too fragile for hard use, so it goes on the wall but for the exact opposite reason the kuk is up there.
I'll have to give the kuk another sharpening try some time. I'm sure I'm missing something.
 
I appreciate the way this conversation has gone more than you know. Don't let me pressure to defile you're piece with scratches. You do whats good for you, bro.
 
The_Shadow said:
Yeah, I use them also. If I can use them, I do. The Finnish pukka gets used, and it is sharp as it can be. The Chicago Cutlery skinner gets a workout every hunting season. The Buck knives do the bulk of it all, and they are my all time functional favorites. I have a Spanish Navarro that is also sharp, but too fragile for hard use, so it goes on the wall but for the exact opposite reason the kuk is up there.
I'll have to give the kuk another sharpening try some time. I'm sure I'm missing something.
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how do you sharpen your other knives? especially say, the "pukka", or the skinner?

getting your khukri sharp, the "first time" is very much like sharpening an axe in many ways. the edge profile that arrived might we truly need some work before you can do the sharpening part (for various reasons, this is the case on many)... so. you get out your file and stone and work that edge. it's nice if you have a belt grinder ($50-200 for 'home users'), that's not terribly pricey, and then you have something for the ball peen hammer, the kitchen knives, the garden tools... minutes instead of hours.

oh, that hand reprofiling? might take hours. that's right. take your time.

now, after all that, and you've gone from stone (i have stones from course, to medium, to fine, to very fine to wow this is like glass) and grades of sandpaper up to 2000/2500 grit, you are ready. it'll be sharp, and getting it sharp again will be easy peasy. no worries.

it's just that first time... it takes a bit. sometimes sending it to someone with a machine is the way to go. after that? you can touch it up in the field with a smooth rock if you know how.

ounch for ounch, inch for inch, there are very few knives on the market that can compete or match the HI offereings, especially when you get to a dollar for dollar comparison. me? i'm not paying $800 for an 18" pigsticker that will just sit in a safe ;)

bladite
 
All of the HI Khukuris that I've had the pleasure to use have performed very well for me.:thumbup: I haven't necessarily used mine as hard as Dave R has used on some if not all of his but I have done some damned hard work with mine in times past and have had only a couple of failures and that was due to the fault of the kami and not the knife.:grumpy: For a while there we were getting a lot of the blades with impossible thin flat ground edges and several blades that are real work horses failed because of that.:(
I had a full sized Ganga Ram made by Bura with one of the totally way to thin flat ground edges and it had a chip break out of the sweet spot on about the fifth chop I made on some seasoned Oklahoma Blackjack Oak.
It was also a bit too hard along the sweet spot.:(
The very first YCS made also lost a chip out of the blade for the same reason; too thin an edge and too hard.:rolleyes:
Dan K also had a full sized Ganga Ram edge failure; seems like it developed several waves along the edge because the edge was flat ground and too thin.
I don't recall what Dan did to fix his or whether it went back to HI.
I fixed both my Ganga Ram and my YCS by re-profiling the blades, effectively taking out the chip and taking enough of the way too hard edge off so there would be no danger of either chipping again.
I also put a full convexed edge on both of them so they would work like they are supposed too. Both have performed flawlessly since.
I also got the very first Chitlangi made by HI and found that it chops like a much heavier blade as do several HI Khukuris.
Granted I wouldn't take down a full size tree with mine except in an emergency and then I would be careful how I went about it; Absolutely No Chopping and Twisting the blade in the cut!!!! :rolleyes:
I also wouldn't use what was originally called a Kumar Kobra to do any heavy work with but we once had a fellow here from the UK that swore by his and used it severely.
My full size Foxy Folly and my 17" Foxy Follys have become my favorite HI Khukuris and they are used for anything I want to use them for without fear of failure.
But then I changed all of their edges to a full convex that's a bit thicker than the flat thin ground edges they came with. The modernization of Shop 2 which became BirGhorka has been both a success and a failure IMO.
With the electric grinder we lost the fully convexed forged edges that all of the HI's had before then.
Sometimes the new ways aren't as good as the old ones.:(
As far as any of the standard heavier khukuris made by HI not being for hard use except the AK is just total BS.:grumpy:

Common sense is the key here as always but as it has always been and always will be, common sense is the least common of all the senses.:rolleyes: :(
 
Bladeite,
I sharpen the knives with a soft Arkansas stone, then a Japanese slip stone. That seems to work pretty well. I also have one of those Lansky sharpening systems, the stones not the ceramic rods, and I like that for putting on the original bevel. Lately, I have been having really good results from abrasive paste crayons rubbed on a flat piece of wood and then use that for a finishing edge. I use the green one mostly, but the red (jeweler's rouge) isn't bad either. I have been known to use a file from time to time as well but don't hold that against me :-)
Yvsa, great news that all your kuks have worked out for you so well. I'm sure that is the truth in the majority of situations or HI would not be here today. I guess I had better say it loud, I'm NOT unhappy with my kuk. It is beautiful. Also, I believe that almost all kuks are great in the field. Mine just happened to be beyond my sharpening powers.

Andy, I'm glad to make your acquaintence as a friend. Funny thing, most of my friends and I don't agree on politics but we are friends anyway. I think that is because I started out in life as a logger, with all the usual right wing, conservative logger politics. Later on, as the family grew and I needed more money, I went back to school and got a degree so I could become a programmer. The experience of an education changed me and I ended up a Libertarian. Such is life.
 
Almost all of my khuks have 'felled their tree'. I chopped down a 9" or so Ponderosa Pine tree with my Chitlangi and it never even hiccuped.

Even HI's lighter stuff is still plenty strong.



munk
 
Yeah, I think a lot of the points here are valid. Every single one of my HI products (even the ones given as gifts) have been tested to their designed useful threshold. Granted, I do not split logs with a kobra. However, my 20.5" 20.5 oz kobra is actually one of my MOST used blades that I own. I don't have a lot of wood to chop, and what little i have is usually pre cut and just needs to be sized with a maul. However, I do have to clean and clear paths through the woods at my mother's house. The kobra is great for that. Light brush, vines, even a few 1-1.5" saplings.
Now, if it breaks on me will i send it back? No chance! I have voided it warranty several times over. It's just the fact that this blade feels so nice in hand and can do so much of the work I need it to do. I mean, it's a martial blade, but I am neither a martial artist nor do i get attacked by ninjas/pirates/zombies on a regular basis (wouldn't that be fun though:D ) Amtrak made this a pretty stout blade with a very convex edge. Short of prying with it or landing glacing blows on hard wood it should stand up to what I need it to do.
That said, when there is AK work to be done I get an AK and do it...actually I get a full sized GRS, but you get what I'm saying;) It's just like golfing. You need to know what club you need for what situation. Taking an Everest Kat and using it to fell a 6" oak is like taking a pitching wedge and trying to sink a put from 20 feet. This goes for any tool. Just like the morons that borrow my multi-tools then hand them back to me with twisted screw drivers when they try to loosen rusted screws that were seated in their threads with an impact to begin with:rolleyes:
Long story short, you can do just about anything with an HI blade if you use a little common sense. I like having the right tool (or khuk) for the job. It enables me to buy more for even more made up reasons:D However, that's why there are jack-of-all-trades khuks. Do it all smasher with an exotic flair? 16.5 chiruwa AK...have fun:)

Jake
 
I suspect that the heat involved in brazing the bolster onto the blade for these MMs is what's causing the trouble. It may easily be that the knife which bit Steve got a bit warmer in the brazing than the Kamis wanted ... and it was cooled off with some water from the teapot. Likely something similar was avoided in Norm's case ... but the braze itself was weaker as a result of not having the blade and bolster both up to temp.

From my perspective, it's maybe worthwhile leaving the Museum Models to the museums ... I've personally never cared for the all-metal look as much, whether in a new khukuri or in a vintage one ... and they seem to be a lot more touchy than you'd expect in getting the details exactly right.

That said, I wailed away again yesterday with my WWII, and couldn't have been happier ... or have felt more secure in the knowledge that my tool was up to whatever I might dish out.
 
I'm with Yvsa. HI blades are made to take hard use (not necessarily abuse). Heck, even the various Khuk shaped objects can chop a 2x4 timber, and I have done the same with a $6 machete. Chopping a 4-6" tree is not much harder (even easier if it is still green) and really isn't much of a test. Is it really much harder than the tests Bill used to recommend for any new khuk? So if chopping a small tree is abuse for a siru or chit (leaving the more obviously weaponish khuks aside), what is their proper range of hard use? I think that the fact is that these are forged knives, and sometimes a forging flaw can get incorporated into the blade - they are not necessarily visible.

Pat
 
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