New Question about Auberins SYL-2352P

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dluxhvac

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Jan 1, 2013
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Just finished a heat treat oven 3 kw 240 volt with a auberins SYL-2352P ramp soak pid. So far I was able to change display to c

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dluxhvac said:
Just finished a heat treat oven 3 kw 240 volt with a auberins SYL-2352P ramp soak pid. So far I was able to change display to c

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Celsius and Run a calibration program

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dluxhvac said:
Celsius and Run a calibration program

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Click to expand...
Sorry I keep hitting send by accident. anyway my problem is when the oven gets up to temp it seems it is slowly ramping down the set temp drops one degree every few minutes. I'm assuming I have something set in the controller wrong. I downloaded the instruction manual but it didn't help much. Is there any examples of setting up a heat treating program for this controller?

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Look closely at the supplemental instructions for your unit with ramp/soak. To keep it at a constant temperature you have to input the target temp twice in the code. In the first program slot input the temp and the minutes you want it to hold, then in the second slot put the same temp and "0" to make it hold until you press run again for example. The basic idea is it is "ramping" between the two temperatures over the minutes specified. So if both temps are the same it is holding that temperature for those minutes. Only counts down the time once the initial temp is reached.

1500 10
1500 0

The above would heat the unit to 1500 degrees, then count down 10 minutes, then blink until you hit run or stop.
Takes a little getting used to it but after a while it makes sense. i confess to having to keep my programming instructions printed out next to my oven as a reminder since it is not very intuitive.

Good luck!
 
It sounds like you programmed ramp, but not soak. If there is no soak time, the controller will consider the program done, and the oven will start slowly cooling down.

I don't recall the actual program steps for your controller, but the basic inputs for each step are:
1) set target temperature ( in degrees)
2) set ramp rate ( 1-9999 in degrees/hour) - generally, use 9999
3) set soak time ( in minutes) - 10 minutes is the minimum soak time you should program. For the final soak at the quench target, just enter an hour, unless there is some secondary step like a drop to temper. Once you do teh quench, either hit OFF or hit Advance to Next Step.
 
I also recommend using the "hold" mode on this controller for simple applications where you just need to bring to temp, hold for 5 minutes and air cool or quench.

Take a normalizing sequence for example requiring 3 different temperatures. With the program mode that would require programming 6 steps including inputting ramp/soak times for each.
Lots of extra work.

I prefer to just program 3 steps, then put the controller in "hold" mode (hold the "down" button one time to "run" and immediately hold the "down" button again to put it in "hold" mode. Then you can just manually move from step to step as you're ready to do each successive part of the normalizing routine (hit step, then up or down to choose which step and then hit the step button 2 more times).

Same with heat treating simple steels, just bring to temp, hold for a t soak and then quench. Doesn't really need an programmable functions so easier to just use it in hold mode :)
 
By only programing one step I didn't set a soak time. After setting a second step with the same temp I was able to get the set temp to hold. Nick I figured out the hold function but then I could have just bought a different controller without the ramp soak function😎. I would really like to learn how to set it up so that I can store programs for a few different metals and just be able to recall program for each. It's just going to take some getting used to.

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Sure, still useful to have a ramp function but it's nice to not always need to set up a program for simpler things. I've also set mine up for some cycles that benefit from the ramp/soak function and love it! Subcritical anneal program is a nice one since it requires multiple temperatures and slow cooling at the end. Have fun with that one ;)
 
When I got one of those I didn't realize that all the pertinent information is in the supplemental manual, that covers ramp and soak, not in the main one.
Pressing the second button from the left, with a slight hold, gives you the program sequence starting from the current point- if you want to start over, press and hold (about a second) the far right button for "STOP"

C: starting temp
T: time to the next segment
Rinse and repeat

If the oven is hot already, you use the current temp as C 1.
I use the STOP function constantly if I need to reset temp for a different material or for thermal cycling/normalization, etc.
It's actually easier to have sequences set up farther down the chain and skip to them (C 7-10, for example) but I tend to just use 1-4 and reset it because my mind works that way....
 
elementfe said:
When I got one of those I didn't realize that all the pertinent information is in the supplemental manual, that covers ramp and soak, not in the main one.
Pressing the second button from the left, with a slight hold, gives you the program sequence starting from the current point- if you want to start over, press and hold (about a second) the far right button for "STOP"

C: starting temp
T: time to the next segment
Rinse and repeat

If the oven is hot already, you use the current temp as C 1.
I use the STOP function constantly if I need to reset temp for a different material or for thermal cycling/normalization, etc.
It's actually easier to have sequences set up farther down the chain and skip to them (C 7-10, for example) but I tend to just use 1-4 and reset it because my mind works that way....
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the responses im slowly figuring this thing out its really just logics once you speak pid language [emoji12]

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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
It sounds like you programmed ramp, but not soak. If there is no soak time, the controller will consider the program done, and the oven will start slowly cooling down.

I don't recall the actual program steps for your controller, but the basic inputs for each step are:
1) set target temperature ( in degrees)
2) set ramp rate ( 1-9999 in degrees/hour) - generally, use 9999
3) set soak time ( in minutes) - 10 minutes is the minimum soak time you should program. For the final soak at the quench target, just enter an hour, unless there is some secondary step like a drop to temper. Once you do teh quench, either hit OFF or hit Advance to Next Step.
Click to expand...
Is there a way to reset an Auber PID controller? I went to attempt some further heat treating this morning after doing an auto-tune run up to 1800F on Thursday, and when I turned on my oven the PID had a HI Alarm light with a PV = "2395" and the SV was blinking "orAL" with "HOLD".
 
Welcome Grandpa Jon. This is a six-year-old thread, but your question is still appropriate. I'll let one of the PID gutus answer for yu. I will change the title to reflect a new question.
 
As far as I know, there is no factory reset. There are two issues that I can see:

1. The orAL (out-of-range alarm) is most likely caused by a wiring issue with your thermocouple.
2. Your PID controller does not do "auto-tune run ups". You may have auto-tuned it near room temperature.

I can't help much with the first problem, other than suggesting to check the wiring and maybe test the thermocouple with another thermocouple reader if you have one. But I can give you some pointers on how to tune the oven if the PID values are messed up. From the PID controller manual:
For this controller, the auto-tune should not be activated when the controller is ramping because the result obtained at one temperature is optimized for that temperature only.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, the manual does not specify what the controller does if you activate the auto-tune during ramp up. I suspect it performs an auto-tune at the current temperature and since you started from cold, you probably got very wrong parameters.

Here is how you can fix the parameters if they prevent you from reaching a stable temperature without waiting forever:
1. Make sure the hysteresis band (Hy) is set to a reasonable value. The default value is 0.3. This value is used during auto-tune.
2. Set the cycle time (t) to 2.
3. Use on-off mode to heat to 1,500°F.
4. Let the oven soak for a while in on-off control.
5. Perform an auto-tune.

An alternative method would be to manually restore the default I (1000), P (500) and D (120) values and ramp up in PID mode in step 3 and then soak in PID mode in step 4.

Once you get the oven working again, you should not have to do any auto-tuning unless you change the set point temperature. If you need to operate at carbon and stainless temperatures, you could try tuning for an in-between value. I don't do ramps, but my controller does not have a problem holding steady temperatures over a wide range with the same PID values. After you get it working, you can try auto-tuning at 1,700°F as a compromise and see how it behaves. Let the oven soak at whatever temperature you tune before activating the auto-tune.
 
Hubert S. said:
As far as I know, there is no factory reset. There are two issues that I can see:

1. The orAL (out-of-range alarm) is most likely caused by a wiring issue with your thermocouple.
2. Your PID controller does not do "auto-tune run ups". You may have auto-tuned it near room temperature.

I can't help much with the first problem, other than suggesting to check the wiring and maybe test the thermocouple with another thermocouple reader if you have one. But I can give you some pointers on how to tune the oven if the PID values are messed up. From the PID controller manual:

Unfortunately, the manual does not specify what the controller does if you activate the auto-tune during ramp up. I suspect it performs an auto-tune at the current temperature and since you started from cold, you probably got very wrong parameters.

Here is how you can fix the parameters if they prevent you from reaching a stable temperature without waiting forever:
1. Make sure the hysteresis band (Hy) is set to a reasonable value. The default value is 0.3. This value is used during auto-tune.
2. Set the cycle time (t) to 2.
3. Use on-off mode to heat to 1,500°F.
4. Let the oven soak for a while in on-off control.
5. Perform an auto-tune.

An alternative method would be to manually restore the default I (1000), P (500) and D (120) values and ramp up in PID mode in step 3 and then soak in PID mode in step 4.

Once you get the oven working again, you should not have to do any auto-tuning unless you change the set point temperature. If you need to operate at carbon and stainless temperatures, you could try tuning for an in-between value. I don't do ramps, but my controller does not have a problem holding steady temperatures over a wide range with the same PID values. After you get it working, you can try auto-tuning at 1,700°F as a compromise and see how it behaves. Let the oven soak at whatever temperature you tune before activating the auto-tune.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for the intel! Hopefully one day I'll know what in the Hades I'm doing
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Welcome Grandpa Jon. This is a six-year-old thread, but your question is still appropriate. I'll let one of the PID gutus answer for yu. I will change the title to reflect a new question.
Click to expand...

Hubert S. said:
As far as I know, there is no factory reset. There are two issues that I can see:

1. The orAL (out-of-range alarm) is most likely caused by a wiring issue with your thermocouple.
2. Your PID controller does not do "auto-tune run ups". You may have auto-tuned it near room temperature.

I can't help much with the first problem, other than suggesting to check the wiring and maybe test the thermocouple with another thermocouple reader if you have one. But I can give you some pointers on how to tune the oven if the PID values are messed up. From the PID controller manual:

Unfortunately, the manual does not specify what the controller does if you activate the auto-tune during ramp up. I suspect it performs an auto-tune at the current temperature and since you started from cold, you probably got very wrong parameters.

Here is how you can fix the parameters if they prevent you from reaching a stable temperature without waiting forever:
1. Make sure the hysteresis band (Hy) is set to a reasonable value. The default value is 0.3. This value is used during auto-tune.
2. Set the cycle time (t) to 2.
3. Use on-off mode to heat to 1,500°F.
4. Let the oven soak for a while in on-off control.
5. Perform an auto-tune.

An alternative method would be to manually restore the default I (1000), P (500) and D (120) values and ramp up in PID mode in step 3 and then soak in PID mode in step 4.

Once you get the oven working again, you should not have to do any auto-tuning unless you change the set point temperature. If you need to operate at carbon and stainless temperatures, you could try tuning for an in-between value. I don't do ramps, but my controller does not have a problem holding steady temperatures over a wide range with the same PID values. After you get it working, you can try auto-tuning at 1,700°F as a compromise and see how it behaves. Let the oven soak at whatever temperature you tune before activating the auto-tune.
Click to expand...
Hubert- this morning I went out and isolated my thermocouple from the PID to see if that may be the culprit; unfortunately it wasn't even after turning it off/on the PV still read 2393F. I did notice that when I turned the power on (each time) I'd get a quick flash of code, then the PV value would read 32F and the SV read o, then there was a slight pause and I could hear a click almost as if a relay was engaging and the PID read the 2393/orAL. I did cut my teeth in BEE (Basic Electricity/Electronics- Analog & vacuum tubes in the military) and know enough to be a serious threat. Hopefully I get lucky real soon- thnx for the intel!!!
 
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