New retail prices for Sebs?

[cziv]

Let's not start to argue amongst our selves ! The OP posted a poorly thought out question with an obvious answer....lets leave it at that. :thumbup:

Well said Haze, a voice of reason. :thumbup: We're all knife lovers here let's not forget.

 

[JNewell]

...and the congregation said "amen."

Well said Haze, a voice of reason. :thumbup: We're all knife lovers here let's not forget.

 

[Ankerson]

The S35vn makes for a cheaper knife to manufacture than S30V. In fact it's almost identical to S30V in performance, so the only real reason to switch is to reduce manufacturing cost.



I have owned 3 Sebenza's in the past. I really liked them, but I never tried to kid myself that they were underpriced! There is a reason Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, Buck, etc. can all sell titanium framelocks with better (harder to grind) steel than S30V for $150: CRK is making bank. He doesn't make that many knives, so they have to be priced high. The quality he exudes is unfortunately quite easy to replicate if you already have the equipment to make something like a BM LFTi, it just takes a bit more time (money) to get a perfect CNC finish and most companies don't need that to sell a knife. I am a machine builder and I have run CNC machines on Steel, Aluminum, and Titanium for the last 8 years: I know what it takes to get a certain finish.

I sold my Sebenzas because I could get 4 NICE knives for the value of one Sebenza. They are nice and they are well designed, but the blade material is WAY OUTDATED for a $500 knife. Not only is S30V commonplace on everyday knives, CRK doesn't harden to even close the full potential of S30V. I can get ELMAX and M390 on sub $150 knives, so a CRK is not a good value to me because I don't feel you get what you pay for.

If nothing has changed, then the price hike is either for inflation or to increase profits. I feel in return for an increase in price, the consumer should get more than an easy to grind steel. This is the reason I will not be purchasing more Sebenzas, but everyone gets to decide for themselves.

Nobody else in the industry works in the tolerance ranges than CRK does, or even close, that's a given and a well known fact.

S35VN isn't cheaper than S30V, it's a lateral replacement for S30V that finishes easier and should be slightly easier to grind.

Just had one of my ZAAN blades HRC tested and it came in at 59+ HRC so they are running S30V in the 59-60 range from what this one came in at.

S35VN hasn't been around long enough or been used in enough knives to get enough data on it to really get enough data on it's performance yet.

I would agree the Sebenza is getting a little dated, is pretty plain looking and S30V\S35VN aren't at the top of the list in super steels, but that performance range makes for a good all around use knife that holds a nice edge for what most people would be using a knife for. Personally I like the ZAAN better so that's why I own 2 of them instead of Sebenzas, updated design, looks much better and the performance is excellent.

Price is what it is, the same goes with other makers and it will vary. CRK is in the $400 range so that could be too high for some for various reasons and for those people there are always other options. Don't expect to get CRK level of F&F and tolerances in the $150 - $300 price range because it's just not going to be there. If the other knives had the same level of tolerances they would also be in the $400 range, maybe even higher depending on the steel used.

Are they perfect? I wouldn't say anything is perfect that is made by man.

Like the other knives in the price range they aren't for everyone for various reasons, but then we have other choices on the market.

I wouldn't really say they are over priced really when we look at some of the prices of other knives out there that are even higher with comparable materials, sometimes $200+ higher.

 

[kreole]

edit: nevermind misread

 

[Moonberrys]

I love all of my CRKs and rotate and use many of them daily. However I do feel that for $400+ they could at least use a better steel than s30v/s35v. Their tolerances are impeccable, and quality has never been anything other than 100% in all of mine but I would really like to see a better steel.

 

[Macchina]

Nobody else in the industry works in the tolerance ranges than CRK does, or even close, that's a given and a well known fact.

I've never seen tolerances on ANY knives released to the public. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but on what grounds do you possibly make this statement?

S35VN isn't cheaper than S30V, it's a lateral replacement for S30V that finishes easier and should be slightly easier to grind.

Pricing using a .125"x1.5"x36" piece of ground bar stock (Niagara Specialty Metals):
4" of S35VN: $9.86
4" of S30V: $9.40

S35VN is cheaper than S30V. Since S35VN is easier to grind, the blade will be even cheaper than S30V after finishing.

Just had one of my ZAAN blades HRC tested and it came in at 59+ HRC so they are running S30V in the 59-60 range from what this one came in at.

My Seb (and ALL Sebenzas and ZAANs) are specified at 58-59 HRc:

The manufacturer (Crucible) recommends hardening between 58-61. This means CRK is shooting for the bottom 50% of the recommended hardness range. 1 or 2 points on the Rc scale is huge when it comes to performance.

S35VN hasn't been around long enough or been used in enough knives to get enough data on it to really get enough data on it's performance yet.

You say "it's a lateral replacement for S30V" above, but here you say it hasn't been around long enough to get performance data. It was designed to be a replacement for S30V that was easier to grind. Most experts agree that there will not be a noticeable performance difference when going from S30V. FYI: The new S35VN Sebenzas are also being hardened to 58-59...

I am going to stop posting in this thread now. I agree with Haze that we shouldn't bicker. I wanted to post the data I had found about S35VN above and be done. Having said all of this, as I also said in my first post, the price increase is probably just due to inflation. Sebenzas are REALLY nice knives, I really liked mine and agree they are a pinnacle in fit and finish.

 

[rolexkid]

if it wasn't posted or in writing or on the knife, how many people could tell what steel it is? my guess 0

 

[Ankerson]

I've never seen tolerances on ANY knives released to the public. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but on what grounds do you possibly make this statement?



Pricing using a .125"x1.5"x36" piece of ground bar stock (Niagara Specialty Metals):
4" of S35VN: $9.86
4" of S30V: $9.40

S35VN is cheaper than S30V. Since S35VN is easier to grind, the blade will be even cheaper than S30V after finishing.



My Seb (and ALL Sebenzas and ZAANs) are specified at 58-59 HRc:

The manufacturer (Crucible) recommends hardening between 58-61. This means CRK is shooting for the bottom 50% of the recommended hardness range. 1 or 2 points on the Rc scale is huge when it comes to performance.



You say "it's a lateral replacement for S30V" above, but here you say it hasn't been around long enough to get performance data. It was designed to be a replacement for S30V that was easier to grind. Most experts agree that there will not be a noticeable performance difference when going from S30V. FYI: The new S35VN Sebenzas are also being hardened to 58-59...

I am going to stop posting in this thread now. I agree with Haze that we shouldn't bicker. I wanted to post the data I had found about S35VN above and be done. Having said all of this, as I also said in my first post, the price increase is probably just due to inflation. Sebenzas are REALLY nice knives, I really liked mine and agree they are a pinnacle in fit and finish.

Specified and actually TESTED are two very different things..... My sheets say the same thing, but the blade came in harder than what was specified, and solid readings at 3 points at 59+ and that is a very good thing.

Production HT operate in a range (like 1 HRC) and it looks like CRK is opting for the higher range of 59-60 HRC, or that's what the HT is hitting.

As far as Tolerances go Sal Glesser posted more than once that there are a lot of Zeros behind the decimal point before CRK hits his numbers... He also posted that if Spyderco tightened up the tolerances to CRK's numbers their knives would be in same price range.

 

[bhyde]

I know of one of the tolerances that is around +.0002, -.0000.
Machine capability in this case doesn't matter. It's not an easy tolerance to hold regardless of the machine. Says nothing about how the operator actually measures this either.

Anyway, it could very well be that CRK had to increase prices to keep up with demand. How many dealers are stocked up right now? Doen't mean they are impossible to find at all, it just means the one YOU want isn't in supply.

I guess a few less coffees a month (plus quitting smoking) will easily justify this increase for me

 

[cziv]

I know of one of the tolerances that is around +.0002, -.0000.
Machine capability in this case doesn't matter. It's not an easy tolerance to hold regardless of the machine. Says nothing about how the operator actually measures this either.

Anyway, it could very well be that CRK had to increase prices to keep up with demand. How many dealers are stocked up right now?

The price increase probably confirms a rumor I read that CRK pays Mr. Spock to come in and set up all of the machines and babysit them on every run. It's the only way he can continue to get such insanely close tolerances over and over again.

 

[snowreaper1]

When you take in account that when you buy a Chris Reeves knife your pretty much buying a knife that will last you your lifetime and probably your kids
its eaiser to justify the higher cost. Alot of the cost probably goes into the warantee work CRK incurs every year. And S30V is still a premium steel. Sure
there are newer steels out now but that doesn't make them better.Just because a steel can get super hard doesn't make them a good all around utlity steel.

 

[cziv]

A lot of the cost probably goes into the warantee work CRK incurs every year

That gave me a much needed grin. I obviously don't agree but it's not worth more than a grin and a wag of the head.

I agree that people are quick to dismiss S30V and S35VN steel, which I think and know as much as a non-metallurgist can know, is very good steel. I'm not a steel snob and I don't need the latest kryptonite blend of the month on my folders. :yawn:

 

[Haze]

Don't forget that CRK were involved in one way or another in the production of S30V and S35VN. It's quite clear to me why they would use those steels over anything else and it bothers me not.