new sandvic steel

Del Raso Knives

Del Raso Knives

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Dec 24, 2005
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Has any one had a chance to try the sandvic sample Admiral was giving out at Blade yet ? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Moochoe grassy ass:thumbup:


Peter
 
No, but I managed to scam outta there with a few pieces myself, so I'm looking forward to trying some out. :)
 
I have 12' of 19c27 1/8" that shipped form Admiral today. I have been waiting on it so I will be glad to have it in hand. First thing will be a run of B&T knives so I hope to get some feedback rather quickly. Sorry I cant chime in now but soon I should have soem feedback on this sandvik steel for you.
 
Peter, I have a pc of 13C26 and will be heat treating a blade tomorrow. I can post the results of that if anyone is interested in this one. I wanted the higher chrome chemistry since I will be using it for fillet knives used around salt water. This is essentially the same as AEB-L I think. I got h t information with the steel. One thing I noticed is that it is very soft. It bent in my hand ( 9 inch fillet blade, .140 thickness) just with the pressure against the belt and platen. It grinds nice, a little gummy, needs a nice sharp belt like most all stainless. I am going to shoot for RC 61 for the finished blade. Phil
 
Thanks for the replies guys:thumbup:

Phil I ground a blade from 13C26 last night and also found it very soft and gummy. I used a worn 60gt belt to profile the blade and was surprised by how bright and shinny it looked. It also seems to leave a burr whether ground or drilled and it even kicked up a burr when I countersunk my tang holes. The bits were all sharp.

I took a 600gt satin finish quicker and easier than anything I have used. I hope this is still the case after heat treat. Looking forward to reading your results. Also could you please post it's composition, I only have the h/treat info.


peter
 
I got a piece of 13C26 from Admial at the Blade show and jumped right on it because I have been disapointed with the quality of ATS34 lately. (smalll pits that don't show up until the knife is almost done and a pattern in some of the steel that can't be buffed out.)

I heat treated and tempered the steel to Admiral's specs and put a mirror finish on the knife. I got a very impressive finish without pits or the shadowy tractor tread patterns I get sometimes in ATS34. Terry from Admiral told me that the 13C26 would get sharper and stay sharper than ATS34 but doing unscientific tests cutting rope and cardboard, I can't tell any difference from the ATS34. I don't think I am ready to make a change yet.
 
G L Drew said:
I got a piece of 13C26 from Admial at the Blade show and jumped right on it because I have been disapointed with the quality of ATS34 lately. (smalll pits that don't show up until the knife is almost done and a pattern in some of the steel that can't be buffed out.)

I heat treated and tempered the steel to Admiral's specs and put a mirror finish on the knife. I got a very impressive finish without pits or the shadowy tractor tread patterns I get sometimes in ATS34. Terry from Admiral told me that the 13C26 would get sharper and stay sharper than ATS34 but doing unscientific tests cutting rope and cardboard, I can't tell any difference from the ATS34. I don't think I am ready to make a change yet.
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You got a very impressive finish without the pits or shadowy tractor tread patterns you sometimes get with ATS34, cutting tests show it to be about the same as ATS34 to you, and you're NOT changing? Why not?
 
Danbo said:
You got a very impressive finish without the pits or shadowy tractor tread patterns you sometimes get with ATS34, cutting tests show it to be about the same as ATS34 to you, and you're NOT changing? Why not?
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I am equally curious. The ease of sharpening and toughness should be far and away better with the 13C26 as well.
 
The composition is 13 chrome, .6 carbon. I got RC62 as quenched out of the LN2. Held at 2000 F. for 15 min per the piece hardening curve furnished by Sandvic. Per John Foster of Sanvic that is about what is expected. I tempered at 400 and it dropped to 59. This is a larger drop than I expected based on working with other steels. It seems very sensitive to tempering . I asked John if he could speak with Sandvic and see if they can give me a formula for 64 as quenched. He said it was possible and would get back to me. This steel seems tough enough to be ok for a working knife at RC 61 and that is what I would like to end up with. I made a 9 inch fillet blade ground to .010 behind the edge. The first take on it is that it works just about the same as 154CM/ATS 34 as already mentiond here and also based on some earlier testing I did with AEB-L which is essentially the same stuff. It is very clean, easy to grind and polish and saves a significant amount of time to a finished blade than some of the higher carbide steels. The cost based on Admirals price sheet is close to the same as CPM 154 which surprised me. I am going to wait until I can get the hardness I want before doing any comparison testing that I would feel would be worth posting. This was developed as a razor blade steel and it can get scary sharp with not much effort. More later, PHIL
 
Phil, with AEB-L I get no reduction in hardness using 300F, and a drop of 2 points using 350F, it doesn't have a lot of alloy in it other than chromium so the hardness drops off pretty quickly. I get very high toughness using 300F, though Roman Landes recommended at least 325F to me. I have done the concrete floor test using a blade tempered at 300F, with a tip at .011". I don't get any greater hardness using 1975F than I do with 1925F, though there is a possibility that it loses less hardness in tempering when using 1975F because of more carbon and chromium in solution. You might actually be getting less hardness as you go above 1975F, oddly the highest hardness I have achieved was when using 1925F. You might also consider moving to an oil quench or a plate quench, since it is not a true air hardening steel. I think we've discussed some of this before, but it is more food for thought. You should be able to get at least 63 Rc.

Edit: I've also been quenching in water after quenches and going back into cryo between tempers, but I don't know if this is increasing my hardness at all or reducing the hardness lost in tempering or not.
 
Larrin, thanks for the info. I am conditioned to higher heat and longer times working with the cPM steels. The Sandvic curves I have show a higher temp at a shorter time gives the highest hardness. I think I will try the same formula and a 325 temper and see what happens. If I get a one pt drop I know that it is getting some stress relief. That would give me the 61 I am looking for. I really want to stay away from the mess of oil quench if I can and used Turco for de carb protection and that really saves some time and expense over messing with foil. I also think a guy could almost use this stuff at as quenched hardness. I got some warpage during grinding and just bent it back straight in my hands with no problem at RC 59. I would think that a couple of hours in LN2 after the original quench would do all that is possible. Cryo between tempers would not hurt anything though. My goal with this steel is for less time to make "Craft Fair kitchen Knives" with a belt finish and RC61 for edge retention. I have found at a lower hardness that the fine edge tends to roll. I think this is possible I have to just do some more work. Phil
 
Danbo said:
You got a very impressive finish without the pits or shadowy tractor tread patterns you sometimes get with ATS34, cutting tests show it to be about the same as ATS34 to you, and you're NOT changing? Why not?
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1) I was told that the finer grain in the 13C26 would give me a much sharper knife: I didn't see it.
2)I have a good supply of ATS34 on hand and will have to run through all of that before I make any changes. Changing steel is a huge decision; the ATS34 has been time proven and even with it's faults has been an excellent steel. The 13C26 is still an unknown to me.
3) Making one knife, I have not seen enough advantage to the 13C26 to go through all the effort to make the change. I will just have to live with the occasional defect in ATS34 for now.
 
GL Drew, what you are saying makes a lot of practical sense. Figuring out and changing to a new steel takes a lot of time and probably more than a few wasted knives. I am still intrigued by 13C27 and feel it has a lot of potential for certain applications. Laririn land Mr Landes who has a lot of experience with this one has given me some very polite guidance. It seems that I am not ever going to get where I want to go without an oil quench. Without it the reatained austentite even with a long time LN2 cycle is going to limit the hardness. Without adequate hardness on a thin edge there will be edge rolling and poor performance. I will have to do more work and use an oil quench and then can report on what I get. In the meantime I have a lot of CPM 154 on hand and have the heat treat worked out for great performance from that one. PHIL
 
Larrin, I was talking with your dad a while back on the phone. When Devin speaks, I listen. He has just about convinced me that AEB-L is just about the best all around stainless out there. I'm a simiple carbon steel (non-stainless) guy, but after our conversation, I really want to try this steel.

I have a PJ Tomes folder in some type of Sandvik stainless that has out performed all the other stainless blades I've used. But I still prefer a good old carbon steel blade myself :)
 
Don Hanson III said:
Larrin, I was talking with your dad a while back on the phone. When Devin speaks, I listen.
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Really? When he speaks to me usually my eyes glaze over and my ears buzz, drowning out anything important. I am a teenager for a little while longer, after all. :p
 
Not to hijack the thread but do you metals guys think I should follow the Sandvik HT suggestions or are there better ways to HT the 19c27?
 
Big Jim, I don't have the data sheet on 19c27 but based on what I have learned from Larrin, Devin and Mr Landes on 13c26 you can go by what is on the sheet but additonal information is required for the best result. These steels form retained austenite easily and using the high end temp and long times just makes this worse. I would start at the low end of temp, like 1920 or 1940, hold at high temp for only 5 to 10 min, use an oil quench to room temp and get it in the sub zero as fast as possible. Start with a 350 temper and adjust to what hardness you want from there. We (at least I am) are conditioned to higher tempertures and longer times with experience with 154Cm and ATS and the like. Also I would like to clarify what I said about Admirals price on these steels. They look like about $15 per pound, whereas CPM 154 is listed for about $20 per pound. Phil
 
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