New Schrade-Walden Knives...who-dunnit?

Codger_64

Codger_64

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I had been seeing odd numbers used for some obviously new production knives using the Schrade over Walden over N.Y. U.S.A., and wondering as usual, who-dunnit. Well I have found out thanks to an equally curious eBay seller who posted the rest-of-the-story in one of his listings.

He shows a copy of the tube insert (supposedly original Schrade tubes supplied), and a close-up of the tang, and went to the trouble to verify the information with the manufacturer. He also points to the most obvious differences from original SW knives. These odd remakes are made by none other than Camillus under license from Taylor Cutlery LLC.

Who knows, they may well be decent knives. Anyone bought one yet?
SWA834Y
SWA880Y
SWA293Y
These three have yellow Delrin handles and use the old Everlastingly Sharp blade etch.

Codger
 
Codger
Is this the first sign that Taylor has started to use the Schrade Walden name in their tang stamp?
As they get more greedy,I wonder what's next - exact copies of the old tang stamps with the original model numbers?:mad:
That sure might put a damper on the collection market.
I believe I read on this forum and elsewhere,that some of the Baer family owned a large stake in Camillus.I don't know if that's still true.
Ron
 
To me at least, it just points to the need for collectors to educate themselves on the details of the original Schrade, Schrade Walden, and Schrade Cut Co knives. One may no longer assume that all that quacks and walks like a duck is indeed a duck. This is one reason why I am devoting so much time, energy and expense in researching modern Schrades. A large proportion of my collection is outside of my personal interest, but is vital to acquiring the knowledge to write my 'rants'.

Codger
 
Codger_64 said:
I had been seeing odd numbers used for some obviously new production knives using the Schrade over Walden over N.Y. U.S.A., and wondering as usual, who-dunnit. Well I have found out thanks to an equally curious eBay seller who posted the rest-of-the-story in one of his listings.

He shows a copy of the tube insert (supposedly original Schrade tubes supplied), and a close-up of the tang, and went to the trouble to verify the information with the manufacturer. He also points to the most obvious differences from original SW knives. These odd remakes are made by none other than Camillus under license from Taylor Cutlery LLC.

Who knows, they may well be decent knives. Anyone bought one yet?
SWA834Y
SWA880Y
SWA293Y
These three have yellow Delrin handles and use the old Everlastingly Sharp blade etch.

Codger
Click to expand...

There's also a Muskrat version, the SWA787Y; SMKW has been selling these for some time now, without divulging who actually made them, except to say that they are, "100% manufactured in the U.S.A.", and they come in the, "Original Schrade Walden see-through packaging!" In very tiny print at the bottom of the item description is, "Used under license from Taylor Cutlery, LLC."

Other sellers on eBay have been misrepresenting these knives as actually being made by Schrade.
 
It's a shame, really, because I'll bet Camillus makes these very well. I would like to try one of these and help out Camillus, but then I have a conflict because it also gives money to Taylor.

Kevin
 
relodr36 said:
I believe I read on this forum and elsewhere,that some of the Baer family owned a large stake in Camillus.I don't know if that's still true.
Ron
Click to expand...

According to the new Blade's Guide To Knives & Their Values, on page 143, under the time-line of the history of Camillus, are the following excerpts:

1938. Albert Baer leaves Kastor Bros. but retains a major stake in the firm, acquired from August Kastor.
1942-45. Camillus makes millions of knives for the government, creates many important military designs.
1947. Kastor Bros. name dropped in favor of Camillus.
1963. Death of Alfred Kastor. Ownership of Camillus passes to Albert M. Baer's two daughters.
1990. Camillus buys stake in Smoky Mountain Knife Works, Sevierville, Tennessee, where part of its factory collection is now on display.
1991. Camillus buys rights to Western name, begins producing Western knives shortly thereafter.
Click to expand...

end of Camillus time-line
 
Codger_64 said:
Well I have found out thanks to an equally curious eBay seller who posted the rest-of-the-story in one of his listings.

He shows a copy of the tube insert (supposedly original Schrade tubes supplied), and a close-up of the tang, and went to the trouble to verify the information with the manufacturer. He also points to the most obvious differences from original SW knives. These odd remakes are made by none other than Camillus under license from Taylor Cutlery LLC.

Codger
Click to expand...

I noticed that ad last week (as I recall) and had a bid in on one, but found a Schrade I wanted more, so didn't stay in the bidding on the Camillus/Schrade. I imagine they are good knives if they are like the other Camillus' I have.

SMKW has the medium stockman for $24.99 & the large stockman for $29.99. More than I want to pay for it, though I might grab one on ebay if I could get it in the $10 range. I agree with enzweika, I hate to support TCLLC.

Dale
 
It would be nice to see Camillus put out more of the Gran'pa series under their own brand. I kinda hoped that I would see these in stores that had carried Schrade. I have noticed that SMKW doesn't sell them yet, which is odd, since Camillus and Smokey are partners ( I have read that Camillus purchased interest in Smokey a while back).
 
The trapper swa293y is very nice.Camillus did good job on these.Smokey purchased Camillus share over one year ago on SMKW.
 
I ordered 2 Schrade Sharpfingers under the illusion that they were the old ones and they turned out to be the Taylor ones with an American flag on the box, ut in small print it says, "Made in China". IMHO, they are a POS. They are not sharp, do not take an edge hardly at all and all I can think of that they have going for them is the size and shape of the Sharpfinger.
I am not an expert and I know that Schade was outsourcing it's steel to China for several years, but I would never recemmend that anyone buy one of these new ones.
 
OldMan1... welcome to our forum, and thanks for the input.

I was complaining to another forum member not long ago that Camillus did not step up to the plate after the demise of Schrade and grab the mantle of 'American's knifemaker'. Seems they made a feeble attempt.. the Grand Dad series of Old Timer clones, but why didn't they have their corps of salesmen hitting every retail outlet hard, very hard, to get their knives, displays in America's hardware stores, discount chains, sporting goods stores, ect?

But if they have such a strong connection to Smokey... well, maybe there is the reason. I don't know. And Camillus seems to be concentrating on outlandishly expensive collaborations and super steel specials. And if they got the contract for making the new Schrade-Waldens, then why not just go that direction, depending on their long history of making knives for others. I admit to not being a knife marketing genius... so guess this is a case of me just wanting something to be so, without knowing all the facts.

I have handled the knives in question. Not bad, not bad at all. I see no reason to own one, however. I have plenty of the old ones.

Phil
 
Camillus and SMKW have no ties. At one time they were partners but SMKW is now a privately owned company.

MVPKNIFE
 
Has Camillus dropped their production of working knives for the upscale market completely? I've noticed that even the Sears contract knives seem to be getting phased out. I would hate to see another American company bite the dust...
 
Interesting, MVP. Thanks for straightening out the record on that issue.

Now that we have unmasked yet another imposter, we can turn our attention back to the real Schrades, 1904 to 2004.

Phil
 
Hello guys, I am new to this forum and am enjoying it. I recently purchased a knife, labled Schrade Walden. It was advertised as made after Schrade closed, but was made in the USA. It was advertised as having carbon steel blades, so I bought it to use, since I like the carbon steel. When it arrived, the blades were actually 440 steel. The fit and finish is fine and the blades are tight and have great snap. On the box it says licensed from Taylor Cutlery. The number on this one is SWAJB47.
 
Welcome Birdhunter!

Nice to have your comments concerning the original post in this thread. Yes, your new knife is a solid user, no doubt about that. Is it a 'Schrade', as recognized here in the forum? No way.

Phil
 
Again, just to set the record straight (or possibly further confuse the issue), when you buy one of these knives, you are buying a Camillus, not a TBLLC product. Camillus pays a licensing fee (read "rents") to use the trdemarked name owned by TBLLC, but that is the only connection between them. Interestingly, Camillus is listed in court documents as an unsecured trade debt creditor in the Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings. I would not be surprised to learn that some of the last special editions were made by Camillus as a vendor for Imperial Schrade. This does at least partially explain how Camillus came into posession of the original stock of tubes. And may well explain the actual origin of these knives (SFO for Schrade from Camillus).

Codger ranting as usual
 
Thanks, textoothpick, for your comment. You are right, this knife is a solid user. I in no way wanted to represent this knife as a Schrade. Just wanted to list another one that is actually made by Camillus. I was not quite sure what I was getting when I ordered it. I will not buy another one.
 
Codger_64 said:
Again, just to set the record straight (or possibly further confuse the issue), when you buy one of these knives, you are buying a Camillus, not a TBLLC product. Camillus pays a licensing fee (read "rents") to use the trdemarked name owned by TBLLC, but that is the only connection between them.
Codger ranting as usual
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this? I thought Utica Cutlery was making these.
 
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