New sheath with quilted pattern

Your quilting looks WAY better than my attempts (which no one shall ever see)…

Maybe next time you might want to start the pattern at the point of the sheath and work out from there.
Avoiding the odd shape at the point.
One of those tricky things you don't really see until it's done.

Great combo, super work.
 
Very good points made, one really has to have a good background on the basics and get them down pat. The rest comes later.

I know a few great toolers here in town, but they seem to have no concept of fit and finish, kind of backwards unless your making art meant to be framed. I kind of think they are.

Those that have the "whole package" like Sandy Morissey, Paul Long, Gary (G2), Chuck Burrows, and many more my fuzzy brain cant get on the screen all, I am sure, started making leather goods on the simple first, then produced the fun stuff. Its the Right of Progression.
 
leatherman said:
If you'd prefer, and I've made this point before, we can limit the comments to positive only. Its not a big deal. :)
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Not at all!!!!! I can't get better and see where I need work if it is only a pat on the back. Some stuff is opinion like not like a quilt pattern. Compared to saying I didn't do it correctly.

Did I read it wrong? I need to get better so I ask and listen but I took that as an opinion. Not that the tooling was " done wrong ".
 
Ah! Good! I agree totally. Simply hearing that a person "doesn't like that pattern" or "that is done wrong" isn't helping, its just commenting. Thats ok, just not constructive.

If your going to say something is a little off, then explain why and how to fix it, its that simple. There is always more than one way to do something, so hear them all and try them all, then you can make a decision based on what works best for you. But if the commentator does not give any solutions then it is simply commenting. Not worth getting worked up over, but not constructive either.

This is an evolution of the craft, so long before there were no comments about the craftsmanship that were taken well. Seems the makers did not want to hear whats wrong, only whats right or that its awesome. I had to go behind the scenes to get help because most of the experienced makers were very cautious to make constructive remarks, and most still are because of the backlash from the new craftsman.

Understandable that you put many hours and lots of sweat into something only to hear that its got flaws. Its hard to swallow that. I learned humility from my Art Professor in graduate school, if it didnt come close to his standards he was BLUNT, very blunt. It hurt the first few times but I learned a lot from his failure to think about my feelings and concentrate on the piece as a whole. Now, I see everything wrong with a little too much ease, flaws stick out like the one I mentioned in that thread about the Master Smith who simply had mink oil in the carving lines, easy to fix, but I evidently offended when I mentioned it. sheesh. I found out later that he had been making knives half as long as I had been working leather, go figure.

We all have areas to improve, we all have more to learn, even those of us who have been at it for decades. Those craftsmen who claim to have mastered all there is to know, well maybe in their world, but not in mine. Sandy and Dave Cole told me just this back in the day, and they are today my biggest influences and teachers. And even new makers can teach me something, I always look for opportunities. Tooling like Sandy being one of my goals. :)
 
I expect to get told what is wrong. I have am no stranger on failing.

I look forward to getting better.
 
Brain first let me apologize for going off topic. By no means was I saying your work is bad at all, actually it's ten times what I can I do. I just got off topic and rambled a little about my personal philosophy on how I begin in a craft like this. Did not mean to hijack it.
 
You guys done need to apologize. I didn't take offense. Just confused at times. If I was worried about what was said I would have posted.

I am wondering if Paul Long will chime in and tell me what he thinks.
 
TheWeatherman said:
You guys done need to apologize. I didn't take offense. Just confused at times. If I was worried about what was said I would have posted.

I am wondering if Paul Long will chime in and tell me what he thinks.
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I am amazed that Mr. Long, and Mr. Puckett and all the other pro makers knife and sheath, etc have the time to reply to our feeble posts. I just know I am grateful for it
 
Brian, by now you've read my email and know what I think……..for the rest of you, I think this is the best work he has put up so far.
"So far" being the key because at the rate he is improving you'll see many more fine examples, each better than the previous.

Right now I rate, based on this last example, his work at about 85% or 90%. Using the same parameters, I rate mine at about 95% (with about 60 years experience). It's that last ten percent we all strive for that is the very hardest to obtain. If I EVER make a 100% (perfect) sheath, I will retire and make no more and I really don't think I'll get there in this lifetime.

Why?, because I keep raising my standard. Like Dwayne, I can spot the tiniest mistakes or imperfections that go totally unnoticed by almost everyone else.

One final thought, and that is the grooving or tooling on the back side of the sheath. This is personal opinion only, but I don't think it enhances the look of a finished sheath one bit. Few if any, "pros" groove or tool on the back of the sheath on a regular basis. I think this might be because I can't ever remember anyone wearing or using a sheath with the back side out, or displaying it backwards.

Paul
 
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Can I change direction an little bit and ask about the rolled over liner .
On many sheaths of this design I've noticed that the area of where the lighter liner leather meets the welt edge it often has a kind of unfinished look to it . I assume because of the softer liner leather doesn't have the attributes of the main sheath leather and it will not match up nicely and burnish up neatly .
Could some of the more experienced members comment on this and show how they tidy up this area .

Thanks

Ken
 
harronek said:
Can I change direction an little bit and ask about the rolled over liner .
On many sheaths of this design I've noticed that the area of where the lighter liner leather meets the welt edge it often has a kind of unfinished look to it . I assume because of the softer liner leather doesn't have the attributes of the main sheath leather and it will not match up nicely and burnish up neatly .
Could some of the more experienced members comment on this and show how they tidy up this area .

Thanks

Ken
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After the lining is set and stitched in and while the sheath is still in the flat state, around the body of the sheath only where the welt will make contact, skive back the deer skin or softer lining material about 1/4" from the edge leaving only the slightly thinner (now) veg tan edge exposed after final glue up. Then when you finish the edges you are dealing only with the veg tan and none of the softer lining leather. Follow the link below and pay particular attention to photo 13 for a visual of what I'm talking about.

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41812&highlight=dave+kelly


Paul
 
sheathmaker said:
After the lining is set and stitched in and while the sheath is still in the flat state, around the body of the sheath only where the welt will make contact, skive back the deer skin or softer lining material about 1/4" from the edge leaving only the slightly thinner (now) veg tan edge exposed after final glue up. Then when you finish the edges you are dealing only with the veg tan and none of the softer lining leather.

Paul
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Excellent , that makes sense .
What about the top of the liner leather that is still visible , do you tuck it back under itself so as not to have that frayed edge look ( kind of like hemming a dress - don't laugh :) )
Also does the glued in liner effect the ability to wet mold the sheath .

Thanks

Ken
 
The only part of the liner that will have a raw edge exposed is on one side of the loop. This is trimmed off flush with a very sharp knife. (refer back to link in my previous post) I use an Exacto with number 11 blade for this. This area is generally not a focal point and will not be noticed to any degree. Wet molding and lined sheaths are generally not compatible. It can take a "soft line" mold but that's about it.

Paul
 
Thanks for taking time to pass on your knowledge , I'm sure I'm not the only one here who really appreciates your advice and technical tips .
Lined fix blade sheaths aren't really on my to do list at the moment , but I've always wondered how they were done , and information like this is always handy to have stored away in the back of my brain .

Thanks

Ken
 
Ebbtide said:
Your quilting looks WAY better than my attempts (which no one shall ever see)…

Maybe next time you might want to start the pattern at the point of the sheath and work out from there.
Avoiding the odd shape at the point.
One of those tricky things you don't really see until it's done.

Great combo, super work.
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TheWeatherman said:
Can't make everyone happy I guess. I will work on it
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Not sure if this was for me or in general, but shall explain myself anyway.
While the leather work is a fairly recent hobby for me, I have been a professional graphic artist for going on 38 years.
Most of that in the BC days… (Before Computers, nowadays anyone can buy a macbook and CS6 and call themselves a graphic designer) :)

When you do a pattern the eye gets used to the repetition and 'expects' it.
Rhythm is a big part of good design.
So when the eye gets to an oddly shaped or significantly differently shaped spot in the pattern the eye gets 'stuck' there and that shape appears "wrong." Or out of place.

Here's a 5 minute photochop to illustrate my point.



The shapes around the point are more even and 'belong' to the pattern.

Again, this isn't the end of the world, just one of those little things like dotting the i's and crossing the t's.
Sometimes it is that little extra kiss that steps the design up from good to great.

Now, how to fix it, or better avoid it in the future.
Drawing the pattern out (on tracing paper, the BC artist's best friend) and laying it over the sheath will help a bunch.

After getting into the same trouble with the Y shaped basket weave tool I tooled a big sheath and traced the pattern onto some tracing paper.
Now before I start I put the tracing paper over the project, look for potential trouble spots and adjust accordingly.
(At least when I remember to think of it :)

Again, I didn't mean to offend, only to help :)
 
Ur fine ebbtide, thanks for the clarification.

Let me be more clear. I don't expect everyone to like my work. I make stuff because I like to make knives and sheaths for my knives. I want to get better. You did help and I took what you said and plan on fixing it for the next one.
 
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