I think you need to read those threads a little better pal. You don't notice the same few bugs flying around these threads ? I agree I need some help w my self control . I am new to bf and I thoroughly appreciate being here. I also am a passionate and loyal person and I can tend to be a bit out spoken. As far as you giving me guidance on how to be a grown up no thx bjt i appreciate the offer. Now I'd like to get back to talking about knives like we were until you brought this issue up again .
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New sk thread
- Thread starter sfrigon1
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Firstly, this is by far the worst shape this subforum has been in since I joined Bladeforums. We don't need to invite any more problems upon us. Now that I have that out of the way....
For NOW I think it would be really good to have the SK line be a GSO-lite with the same great materials just being finished outside of the S!K shop (even using existing materials once planned for future GSO runs) to have units to sell to willing customers. Even when the company is in a much more comfortable spot I wonder if most of the innovation will come in the form of the GSO line or a limited run custom line.
Yes it would ,maybe ffg??? I would love something a true 4 in.
I've heard gso - lite just curious what is meant by this ? Thinner stock ?
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This is just a TR original term meaning the SK series could be the same in dimensions and materials as the GSO line just without all the detailed refinements we've gotten used to. I appreciate all the perfectionist attention to details they've been doing, but I think an SK with Guy's designs and top shelf materials (for a knife that will get beat up anyways) will work fine for me!
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It sounds as if Survive is going to, no rancor intended, skim the cream of the blades and scales off each production run and then ship the remainder off for outside assembly.
This allows them to maintain Guy's GSO high production quality standards and still make knives from the (admittedly still pretty darn good) seconds without Guy having to put his own time into every piece to save it.
If they decided to do a GSO only run they'd have to absorb all the production losses themselves, so I doubt they'll go that route unless they get some really amazing QC from their sources.
This allows them to maintain Guy's GSO high production quality standards and still make knives from the (admittedly still pretty darn good) seconds without Guy having to put his own time into every piece to save it.
If they decided to do a GSO only run they'd have to absorb all the production losses themselves, so I doubt they'll go that route unless they get some really amazing QC from their sources.
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I mentioned this on another post, but I'm wondering if extra handles will be more readily available for GSOs and even to spice up and enhance SKs. Somebody somewhere confirmed that specs of GSOs to their SK counterparts will be identical making fasteners and handles shareable, right?
scout1sg
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Concur all above.
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I really hope they're as close as S!K is making it seem. I want my pair of 12's!
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The whole thing is kind of behind a curtain (because we don't know production numbers) but it seems to me that all the people that have been complaining that Guy should drop everything and work only on pre-orders are going to get their wish. It remains to be seen how much reducing/eliminating the production of seconds will speed things up.
If you look at the production schedule then things are projected to move much more quickly, about a model a month for the first couple at least.
Considering that it took roughly two years to complete the first two model runs (5.1 & 4.7) that is a dramatic increase in the production rate.
They do appear to have committed to finishing the GSO 2.7, 4.1 and 7/7 models in house (the SK 3.5 is the first one offered in the SK line) and they have mentioned that the 4.1 run is much larger than the others.
I expect the transition to take a few months but once they clear out the inventory in the shop they should begin making real progress because they will have satisfied the majority of their preorder obligations since the remaining production runs are going to be much smaller. Remember that the production schedule is in decreasing order of popularity (mostly) and they decided to run the GSO 12 as a good will gesture even though they didn't have enough pre-orders to cover the anticipated production costs. That suggests that Guy won't have too many units to produce in his shop once the SK line is the main emphasis.
If you look at the production schedule then things are projected to move much more quickly, about a model a month for the first couple at least.
Considering that it took roughly two years to complete the first two model runs (5.1 & 4.7) that is a dramatic increase in the production rate.
They do appear to have committed to finishing the GSO 2.7, 4.1 and 7/7 models in house (the SK 3.5 is the first one offered in the SK line) and they have mentioned that the 4.1 run is much larger than the others.
I expect the transition to take a few months but once they clear out the inventory in the shop they should begin making real progress because they will have satisfied the majority of their preorder obligations since the remaining production runs are going to be much smaller. Remember that the production schedule is in decreasing order of popularity (mostly) and they decided to run the GSO 12 as a good will gesture even though they didn't have enough pre-orders to cover the anticipated production costs. That suggests that Guy won't have too many units to produce in his shop once the SK line is the main emphasis.
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I love my Cru-V 4.7's (Unique), but sold off my others (loved them but never used). Sounds great, but let's chat again in 6 months if I can grab a SK3.5 and have it ship when I need it for a trip in a month.
Based on my Cru-V 4.7, it's design and performance, Survive! keeping knives under $300 is just a recipe for customer relations disaster. IMHO they are WAY WAY WAY underpriced and will continue generate demand that will continue to be extremely tough to meet. Add another $100-$200 to each knife and the extra profit from what's in the pipeline could generate cashflow to hire more people and train them to keep up with the slightly diminished demand from the increase or whatever they want to use the cash for.
Think I'm crazy and don't believe me? Just take one recent example, the limited edition GSO-4 regrind. The blades were initially produced in 2013, ground once scandi. Approximately 4 years after sitting they were redesigned, reground, re-heat treated with fitted scales. All this inventory sitting for 4 years, all the labor to grind twice, heat treat twice, shape handles twice and the price is $284 including a handmade Sagewood sheath which was probably $100 on it's own, making the knife itself about $184 by itself. That's a bargain basement price leaving no profit margin and should have been at least $100-$200 more a least, IMHO.
They produce a great product. It's time to start pricing them that way to fund what everyone wants, Survive! knives when we want them.
Based on my Cru-V 4.7, it's design and performance, Survive! keeping knives under $300 is just a recipe for customer relations disaster. IMHO they are WAY WAY WAY underpriced and will continue generate demand that will continue to be extremely tough to meet. Add another $100-$200 to each knife and the extra profit from what's in the pipeline could generate cashflow to hire more people and train them to keep up with the slightly diminished demand from the increase or whatever they want to use the cash for.
Think I'm crazy and don't believe me? Just take one recent example, the limited edition GSO-4 regrind. The blades were initially produced in 2013, ground once scandi. Approximately 4 years after sitting they were redesigned, reground, re-heat treated with fitted scales. All this inventory sitting for 4 years, all the labor to grind twice, heat treat twice, shape handles twice and the price is $284 including a handmade Sagewood sheath which was probably $100 on it's own, making the knife itself about $184 by itself. That's a bargain basement price leaving no profit margin and should have been at least $100-$200 more a least, IMHO.
They produce a great product. It's time to start pricing them that way to fund what everyone wants, Survive! knives when we want them.
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Not at all, I agree wholeheartedly. One of the first posts I made in here was about the need to adjust pricing to bring supply into line with demand. Guy just does not want to do that it seems, and I reeled myself in after he responded saying it wasn't going to happen.
But I'm glad to see there has been some price adjustment recently, as I believe it's necessary for longevity. When you can immediately sell everything you can actually physically produce, and even things that are not produced yet, it is time to raise prices; not to gouge the customer, but so that you can fulfill obligations without overextending yourself. The need he feels to be fair (my words, not his) price-wise has been counter-productive, backfiring unfortunately from what I believe he intended, but it was not unforeseen and was predicted by many. I'm trying to say that in the nicest way possible, meaning no offense to him, because I have a great respect for anyone trying to run a business and I know he's learning on the fly. I do not like the business model though, and really hope the SK line proves to be the right move in the transition away from it.
tldr: Prices could still stand to be raised, Guy's probably not going to do that, and HK, although well-meaning, comes across like an ass.
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Hard Knocks
there are number of asses I've seen around and you are most definitely not one of them.Guy's core values have always been huge attention to detail and pricing that is attainable for nearly anyone. This is what he values. It's come back to bite him and hurt the company, but he is sticking by his original vision.
ndmiller
SURVIVE! seems to take baby steps to address certain things, but pricing is going up. You bring up some good points.
Skrapmetal
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I don't really care much about the SK line as I have preorders for GSOs of all of the models I will want. The only thought I have for it is a bit of concern that it could further slow production, but that might not be the case. I'll be honest, I haven't done much homework on it.
scout1sg
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$100-$200 increases among knife models would be outrageous (but assume there is some sarcasm here hopefully, lol) but I understand what everyone is saying. Guy/Ellie did make some price adjustments on the GSO lineup (by approx 10%) which I assume did help out a bit but also another reason that potentially led to the SK line as well.
scout1sg
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I believe some level of outsourcing helped out with this move.