New Square Wheel Platen with a problem

synthesist

synthesist

So many knives so little time
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Messages
933
I just broke down and bought a Wilton Square Wheel platen (with 1 1/2" and 3' wheels). They stuck me pretty good btw. That said, it is a well made goodie.

But I have a problem and maybe someone here can tell me how to correct it. When I put a new 2" belt on this thing I can't seem to get it to track evenly and consistently. Belts are walking left and right on me, no matter how I try to adjust them. Any ideas? Do I have to crown these wheels to get it to track?

Another couple of questions as long as I'm sittin' here typing.

1)Should I be putting something slippery (graphite for example) on the platen itself to help things move smoothly?

2)Is there anything I should do to this to make it work better. I was thinking of attaching a machined and HARDENED plate with radius-ed edges(different radii on each edge (1/8", 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2") - ala Ed Caffrey).

Thanks for you thoughts and sneaky ideas on making this thing work while I still have hair left..

Syn
 
How tight are you running your belts? I've found that belts can tend to walk if they're a little loose.

-d
 
Are you using good belts? I bought some cheap ones back in the beginning, and many wouldn't track properly, just like your problem issue.

Secondly, be sure the contact wheel is properly lined up. Adjust the distance between the contact wheel and the shaft where one tightens the shaft into place when you change between the different wheels. Also be sure the belts are snug and tight, or they will not track well.
 
Okay then I will check these things when I get home. I noticed that cam adjuster but didn't really pay any attention to it.

I thought I had the belts good and tight but I will give it another notch and see what happens.

Thanks..............

Syn
 
Hi,
I got of these machines second or third hand for a song- it had some "made to fit" parts when I got it...after I got the parts issue cleared up I still had trouble with the tracking.

I don't want to sound obvious here- but because of the trouble, I downloaded the manual from Wilton Tool. It said to adjust the tracking by hand with the machine off. Also, I've found that you have to let go of the adjustment gimmick when spinning the belt by hand or you will get a pull effect opposite of whatever side of the adjustment gimmick you are putting pressure on. Of course, keep the belts tight. I've gotten the tracking adjusted for one belt and had to change it occassionally when I switch belts due to different tightnesses.

Congrats on the grinder- I wish mine was new...but with new parts it works great!
 
One thing to be aware of is that the stock platen does not work well for grinding bevels. Most guys attach a platen face (this can be mild steel or something else) to get clearance on the left hand side.

Once you do that, it is impossible to adjust so that the wheels are proud of the platen face, so I don't think that's the root of your tracking problem.

Sounds like you have seen Ed Caffrey's page, so you probably already know what I am talking about.

It's probably belt tension. You have to run surprisingly tight, especially if your belts are not the best quality.

Dave
 
I didn't say this was a Square Wheel grinder I said I bought a Square Wheel platen assembly (sorry I should have elaborated).

My machine is Bader II, I believe, that was customized (and accepts Square Wheel accessories) for me by Timothy Wright when, years ago, he still lived here in Chicago, before he moved to Sedona, AZ. Wanna see what he builds? Check about midway down this page and drooool -> http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433990&page=4. Tim made a machine that will survive a nuclear attack it is bomb-proof - heavy as hell. He doesn't want his grinders moving around AT ALL.

My father-in-law built me a VFD to run the 1 1/2 hp Westinghouse DC motor we picked out of a Westinghouse scrap room at the time. Helps to have an electrical engineer in the family.................

Originally I just bought a couple of 1" thick x 10" diameter wheels (smooth and serrated) and then just played with it that was. Now I am getting more serious so I bought the platen and smaller wheels.

I will try adjusting things by hand after I get the wheels level with the platen and hope that solves things. I am using Norzon belts I believe but I'll pay attention to that also.

Abrasive - I'm not sure what you mean when you say I need clearance on the left hand side. Clearance for what? I haven't attached a face to the platen yet btw. I am just dialing this thing in. I will also get that belt good and tight (I may need a stronger spring, damn!).

I'd called Tim but he is in the middle of some critical process (as Coop mentions in his comments Tim does get a tad obsessive at times) so I thought I'd inquire here until he calls me back.

Thanks for all the help gentlemen.

Syn
 
You can't make plunge cuts on the left-hand side of the platen. If you look at where the belt tracks, you can see that it won't track over to the edge of the platen on the left-hand side. You need the belt to run at the edge of the platen so that you can angle the blade into the platen and cut the bevel. Does that make more sense?

It's only a problem if you want to flat grind.

See this page for more info:

http://www.caffreyknives.net/wilton.htm

Dave
 
Ok, I see...I just figured that you had a Wilton with the 8" wheel and got a flat platen- that logic sort of made sense to me since I had gotten a Wilton with the platen but no big contact wheel attachment. The others are right about the plunge cuts, though.
 
I've been getting a lot of phone calls lately about "belt wobble". I think there is an unussual amount of wobbly belts out in the market right now. What do you mean when you say:
"I can't seem to get it to track evenly and consistently. Belts are walking left and right on me"

Are the belts just oscillating left and right...about 1/8". Or does te belt pull to one side when you grind, then move back when you remove the work piece?

Oscillating back and forth about 1/8" is belt wobble....it is caused by wobbly belts...not from the machine.
 
Ummmmmmmmm.........

Okay, here goes. When I said I was having a problem with the tracking I meant, I would adjust the belt to center it on the bottom (3") wheel. It would be okay when I rotated it by hand (note to self: if it hurts this much when you run your finger around the wheel when the machine is off imagine how much it will hurt with the machine runnin'!!!!!!!!!! Whatta a dumb-ass I am sometimes.). Then I would turn it on ata slow speed and it would move either way (randomly) steadily until I caught it with the adjuster. As I tried to compensate I'd get it moving back towards the center and it would pass that by and continue in that direction. I'd try to catch it just right and miss....over and over and over and over. I tried it at progressively faster speeds as well and that didn't help anything. BTW I wasn't even grinding anything just trying to get it tracking right. My wife walked in while I was trying this and heard some choice words. She exited laughing her ass off................ She thinks my knife adventure will be a passing thing.

Note: When I run a 1"X10" wheel this machine tracks PERFECT.

Tim called me last night and also made some suggestions, preceded by the comment. "Welcome to knifemaking, bucko!" He asked me to check the idler wheel for wear and grooves. It's just fine. He insisted I make sure that the platen wheels are level with the platen. Did that. Still no joy...... He also suggested modding the platen wheels with a couple wraps of masking tape to crown it a bit and said if he were here he'd figure it out but diagnosing it over the phone was tough. I plan to try the tape thing tonight.

More after I try this.

Thanks again for all the ideas.

Syn
 
OK! I've got it! The wheels on your attachment may have a slight hour-glass shape such that the edges are bigger than the center. This makes the belt vey unsable...like trying stand on a basketball. But your 10" wheel is fine...so I think you machine and tracking wheel are also fine. Itis just your new attachment. The belt is trying to ride on the taller edges of the wheels. You can fix it yourself by splitting a belt to about 1/2" wide. Then use a sanding block to lightly reshape the wheels on your Platen attachment to take the high edges down. Even put a small radius on the edges...say 1/16-1/8R.

I'm not sure if any of this made sense...let me know.

Good luck and keep your fingers outta the moving parts of the machine!!!

-Rob
 
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