New Stainless Steel Canteen combo out next week

[sodak]

This is a great find Tixx, thanks for clueing us in on it! I greatly prefer single walled stainless, and will be placing an order!

 

[Tixx]

Thanks, looks like that added additional carry options today.

 

[Tixx]

Any idea if the lid is the same size as a standard nalgene? Since my first post, I've decided against this, but if it was in fact the same size, I might be swayed.

Totally wondering the same thing, but I'm going with my gut of "NO". Especially since it is not backward compatible with regular canteen gear. Sorry for this crappy answer and know you just want a yes or no. But I had to let it all out!

 

[Bowman1911]

Totally wondering the same thing, but I'm going with my gut of "NO". Especially since it is not backward compatible with regular canteen gear. Sorry for this crappy answer and know you just want a yes or no. But I had to let it all out!

Yeah, you've seconded pretty much what I've been thinking. Hence my not really wanting one now. I'm sorta compiling a list of all things compatable with my MSR Hyperflow. It's kinda wild that 2 different caps that are meant to be & are compatable with 1 bottle won't fit another bottle they're meant to fit.

 

[ROCK6]

Any idea if the lid is the same size as a standard nalgene? Since my first post, I've decided against this, but if it was in fact the same size, I might be swayed.

I don't think it is, but that would have been a very good idea added in...

Baldtaco-II, I see where you're coming from but I really don't think the statement of "15-months" was really just the manufacturing. Sure it's a simple project and not a necessarily complex product. I would bet the majority of the time is often building prototypes and testing...and don’t forget they don't spend all their time on that specific project as many run a business or have a “day” job. I think the evolution of the "Backcountry Boiler" http://www.theboilerwerks.com/about/, is a great example of an idea finally making it into production and it took long time.

I do have the same frustrations at the time it takes to release a product. Manufacturers often display their newest firearms at our big Shot Show every year. Very rarely do they ever hit the market that year and often in such small batches they are unavailable and you end up waiting close to two years to actually have the opportunity to get your hand on one or purchase one. I think it does backfire in some instances; however I would rather wait longer for a product that works without issue than go through the hassle of dealing with shoddy, half-baked designs needing multiple fixes after release.

Many smaller businesses and innovative designers don't have the capital to rush an investment for a new product and before they submit a design for material and die fabrication, they want to make sure they have a product without error. The time and investment to fix an error after production and is often beyond their resources, hence the reason they want to spend the extra time to perfect their design.

ROCK6

 

[sicily02]

Well said ROCK6.

 

[jonnyt16]

The canteen shop is a niche market and some nice innovation for those favoring the use of a canteen as a water container. I do have a couple of their lids, but they are very heavy and way over-engineered. A nice fellow on the UK Bushcraft forums sent me a simple one stamped out of a thick aluminum and I was able to duplicate with some discounted aluminum plates for a couple other canteens.

I've been looking for an ideal lid for my canteen cups that doesn't weigh half a ton like the ones from the Canteen Shop. I just use tinfoil but would like to find something more durable like the stamped aluminum one your buddy sent you. Care to share some more info on it?

 

[baldtaco-II]

I don't think it is, but that would have been a very good idea added in...Baldtaco-II, I see where you're coming from but I really don't think the statement of "15-months" was really just the manufacturing. Sure it's a simple project and not a necessarily complex product. I would bet the majority of the time is often building prototypes and testing...and don’t forget they don't spend all their time on that specific project as many run a business or have a “day” job. I think the evolution of the "Backcountry Boiler" http://www.theboilerwerks.com/about/, is a great example of an idea finally making it into production and it took long time. I do have the same frustrations at the time it takes to release a product. Manufacturers often display their newest firearms at our big Shot Show every year. Very rarely do they ever hit the market that year and often in such small batches they are unavailable and you end up waiting close to two years to actually have the opportunity to get your hand on one or purchase one. I think it does backfire in some instances; however I would rather wait longer for a product that works without issue than go through the hassle of dealing with shoddy, half-baked designs needing multiple fixes after release. Many smaller businesses and innovative designers don't have the capital to rush an investment for a new product and before they submit a design for material and die fabrication, they want to make sure they have a product without error. The time and investment to fix an error after production and is often beyond their resources, hence the reason they want to spend the extra time to perfect their design.ROCK6

Hello mate.......................I don't really have anything new to add. The device itself struck me as a very obvious case of money for old rope. Capitalist swine that I am if they can get away with selling that though then great. Stuff like that wouldn't normally feature on my radar for long merely because of what it is. The only thing that made that stand out was that in the attempt to sell that old rope they went with that 15 month thing. That was immediately jarring. I went from “good luck selling your old rope” to “now you are taking the piss”. I made a glib comment to that effect.....................I didn't anticipate my glib comment being challenged because I thought I was a self explanatory truth. Whilst it lacked the hideousness of a gentleman's razor advert full of harder, faster, deeper, more thrust it has an ugliness like the L00K and WOW adverts. I tend to find good stuff, even very humble good stuff, sells itself. And the best good stuff sells itself with classy understatement. When something needs to come wrapped in a BS delivery system in order to try to sell it my alarm bells go off...............................Since my position has been challenged it has only served to galvanize it further. There has been a lot of talk about the manufacturing process as if that had any bearing on anything here. I can think of a single item that I have bought in years where in any way manufacturers hassles between design phase and the product being in my possession was genuinely relevant - and that wasn't lighters, or cars, or stoves, or computers or anything like that, it was down, because when you buy a kilo of loose down it can look like you are getting a pig in a poke unless you knew a bit about it, in this instance that hand picking process in Hungary of the optimal bits. That's a rare exception that supports the rule though..........................Generally speaking I find the less merit a product has the more an advertiser needs to claw to try to sell it. And the more they need to claw and play up a bunch of old nothing the more suspicious I become. Nobody needed to tell me how long Zippos took from the genesis of the idea, through a trawl through the manufacturing hardships and all that to sell me a Zippo. We just know somewhere in the back of our heads that it must have taken effort and that's good enough. Everyone that brings something to market makes effort so what. On the other had consider the cosmetics industry that makes a habit of selling a bunch of old nothing. They grasp and claw and associate their products with other things because that's all they've got. It's all about the story; the hardships of manufacture, the difficulty in obtaining virgin child tears that they blend with the finest whale kaka which is only available to them once every four years, and that is guaranteed to be up to 100% effective at concealing your bald spot........................Somewhere along a line between say cigarette papers that have a story but it is irrelevant and shampoo to give me a glossy coat that is pretty much all story and no substance I can plot this. So far I've seen nothing else other than story. There's no statement on performance, or why there was a need to develop this product to solve problem X, or what it does better than existing products [that are remarkably similar and often a lot lighter and cheaper], no nothing. I could have bit of respect for it if they said our twig burner is more efficient than …...[and then measurement against that Crusader burner for example. Although I strongly suspect they didn't do that because the design of their one looks shit and inefficient in comparison] but there isn't anything on that page of any substance. It's best clawing effort is to make much of how long it took to bring to market, a timespan I am given to believe is commonplace. That's empty rhetoric. I really can't expand on than any further. It is hiding in plain sight.

 

[Tixx]

If we could get more on topic of the bottle it would be appreciated. If you need a thread on manufacturing processes BT, then please begin a separate thread. Thank you.

 

[baldtaco-II]

If we could get more on topic of the bottle it would be appreciated. If you need a thread on manufacturing processes BT, then please begin a separate thread. Thank you.

I really don't. I made a small self explanatory comment and it has snowballed ever since. It was never my intention to discuss manufacturing and I'm quite surprised that people keep bringing it up when addressing me. I've gone to great lengths to try to shut that down as an irrelevance to what I wrote from the very first outbreak, yet still they come. I was hoping my response to ROCK6 would have been an end to it, but now out of good manners I must respond to you too. Right, The End, FINNI, no more, TFFT.

 

[ROCK6]

Hey BT, it’s all good…it’s funny how topics can take an unintended direction…back on topic!

I've been looking for an ideal lid for my canteen cups that doesn't weigh half a ton like the ones from the Canteen Shop. I just use tinfoil but would like to find something more durable like the stamped aluminum one your buddy sent you. Care to share some more info on it?

I know it sound ridiculous to worry about the weight of a lid with a two pound canteen kit, but I prefer the lighter solution than the Canteen Shop “heavy lid”. The heavy lid is very well made and robust, but my only needs of a lid are to keep ashes from floating into it and enough of a cover to improve boiling time.

I thought the standard canteen Heavy Lid would fit their new model, but I’m not sure; they did have one in their video.

A very generous fellow on the UK Bushcraft forums sent me one of his creations which was a great template for my own. Mine are less refined, but still feasible. Here is a picture of my inspiration:

My versions are not quite up to the same standard. But they were pretty simple to make. I picked up several cheap, thick aluminum camping plates from somewhere on line (I think Campmor).

I traced out the canteen cup designs with about a quarter-inch overlap and used tin snips to cut out the lid. It doesn’t hurt to have a file or Dremel to smooth out the cut edges a little. With a pair of pliers and a ball peen hammer I just slowly shaped the edge of the lid around the cup; I like the lid tight enough not to fall off, but loose enough to remove with a long stick through the D-ring. I picked up some of the small D-ring latches and some cheap aluminum and brass rivets; drilled the holes and used the ball peen to secure the rivets. Really quite simple…even a caveman like me could make a much more robust lid than aluminum foil. They are pretty robust, nothing like Canteen Shop’s “Heavy Lid”, but more than serviceable and functional in the field to serve as a lid when boiling directly over a fire.

The little D-ring isn't necessary, but make it much easier to check on your water or brew without burning your fingers...

ROCK6

 

[Tixx]

Really nice work on that lid Rock!

 

[baldtaco-II]

ROCK6, good stuff man...........................For future reference I've had good success looking for “aluminium shim”. Just for reference have a look at this. You can set your own exact compromise of weight, structural integrity, and malleability for a few quid. Worth it if you've a few jobs. For an example look at what a half meter square of 1mm costs.

 

[ROCK6]

ROCK6, good stuff man...........................For future reference I've had good success looking for “aluminium shim”. Just for reference have a look at this. You can set your own exact compromise of weight, structural integrity, and malleability for a few quid. Worth it if you've a few jobs. For an example look at what a half meter square of 1mm costs.

That's a good source...I have a few plates left, but I do feel guilty cutting them up

 

[Murphnuge]

Ok, this is far from a proper review, but I'll throw in my initial impressions. I just got my SS canteen kit over the weekend and right out of the box there was a problem. The pouch it comes with already had a broken button. I called the Pathfinder school and they're sending me a replacement. Still though, the pouch sucks and that's being polite.

The bottle is very sturdy feeling. Great seal in the cap, not overly large feeling overall. The cap actually fits my hand pretty good. The cup and stove will do well, though I wish they'd have went with a heavier gauge steel. I've yet to cook with it, but I've been using the canteen for a couple days now. No leaks, not overly heavy. Anyway, pix!

All packed up.

All the parts.

Measuring marks inside the cup.

Cheap pouch. Poorly assembled all over.

And the damaged button.

 

[Tixx]

Thanks for the info! Mine will be here Thursday it looks. I opted for the paracord cover and sling. The second I saw it online I edited my order with them. I knew I was never going to use that pouch.

 

[jonnyt16]

Its a shame that kit won't fit the normal USGI pouches (or does it?) because you can get some real nice made-in-USA pouches (Eagle Industries, BAE Systems, etc.) that are built very well for the military. Never had a problem with any of mine. If that one from the Canteen Shop feels cheapy then my guess is that they outsourced the pouches to a Chinese manufacturer. Again thats just my guess, you may want to ask them. But for the price they are asking for that kit I'd be a little disappointed with a Chinese made pouch because they are bound to fail as you already found out.

 

[harpoon41]

Got mine today and I agree the pouch is about useless. FYI it will not fit a standard USGI cover, tried it, too big to snap both sides in. I have one of the Best Glide canteen pouches and will carry it in that.
The bottle is very heavy, overall, nice but worth 80 bucks, mmm... probably not.

 

[wildmike]

Mine should be here Monday...Looking porward to it especially the cup.

If the carrier sucks I'll make a better one.

 

[ROCK6]

Well, mine arrived. As for the canteen, cup and stove stand, they are well made and I like the construction. The steel is thinner than standard canteen cups, but still looks sturdy. The cap looks pretty tough, but it isn’t compatible with Nalgene…I really wish they would have considered that; not a deal breaker, just a slight disappointment.

The cup is marked and graduated, showing up to 700ml which is a decent amount. I do much prefer the type of folding handle they used. It’s also designed to fold up and over the canteen stove stand, thereby making it a single unit which is nice. Canteen Shop’s signature stove stand is solid.

Overall the three parts to the unit are very well done.

Now, the cover just plain sucks. The design is nice, but it seriously isn’t even in the same league as air-soft crap. I can see how the snaps to the MOLLE webbing straps are not going to last. If those straps are not weaved into MOLLE webbing, you’re going to end up losing your $80 canteen set. I think I too have a BCB/Crusader canteen pouch I’ll switch to, but it’s pretty sad that a lot of thought and effort went into the canteen set and it looks like the cover was just an after-thought. It doesn’t take away from the functionality of the canteen kit, but is disappointing as the cover really isn’t a serious contender to take outdoors. If you really plan to use this thing, you’re going to need a better pouch.

I think I have an extra “heavy lid” laying around, but I’m going to try and make a lighter lid out of an extra aluminum plate I have; just need to see if I have any more rivets and latches for the lid. I think a thin piece of snare wire would also be a good addition to loop over the canteen mouth (I wish it had a cap-retaining ledge like the Nalgene/Guyot bottles to give you a more secure attachment) so you can make it easier to hang or retrieve from a fire without burning your hand.

So, is the kit worth the price? I don’t know. Sure, the materials (especially the cover) don’t necessarily demand that kind of price, but the set up is unique and designed with a very functional “bushcraft” purpose. It’s not a rocket-science design as it is just a stainless canteen, cup and stove stand, but it is also a niche market and not many similar options out there in canteen form. One of the reasons I like the Pattern 58 NATO canteen over the USGI canteen is the wider mouth; this stainless canteen provide a very wide mouth as well which I prefer. Weight isn’t a concern especially if you’re already considering a stainless canteen/water bottle. I won’t be doing the AT with this, but for shorter hikes more focused on bushcraft and training, this is a good setup.

I’ll try and do a little testing over a fire this weekend. Time will tell if this canteen can hold up with use in or over an open fire; that’s the primary purpose of a single-wall metal water container.

More to follow…Other than the crappy canteen cover, the set up looks promising and very well made.

ROCK6