New stones from Venev and picture's.

wade7575

wade7575

Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
1,105
I was sent 2 new Venev stones from Konstantin of Gritomatic for testing,they are 1200 FEPA grit or 6K grit jis rated stones.

There are a few thing's Venev is trying to achieve from what I was told with these new stones.
They are trying to make a more stable bonding material that holds the diamonds in place and also they are trying to achieve a better scratch pattern that is better for polished edge's.

The other thing I was told is that at the 1 to 3 micron level of the original bonding material it can compress when stored over time and bend the aluminum blank and that is why Venev is trying to make a more stable bonding material.

Here are some pictures of the 2 stones I got from Konstantin,the top picture is a DLT Trading Mini Griptilian exclusive I got a while back and it has M390 blade steel,I also used only Venev stones on both knives and started with a 150,400,800,then I switched to the new Venev stones I got witch would be 1200 FEPA grit or 6K as I stated before,I did no stropping at all I only used stones as I was asked to do and take pictures of the result's.

I also want to say thank you to Venev and Konstantin for sending me these stones to test.

I used the 1200 grit stone marked OCK on the M390 blade.

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Here is a picture of the OCB stone after I sharpened a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 the same way I described above.

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Here are picture's of the stones they are more greenish in color like cement that has not fully cured and is still a bit green.

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Nice post! I am thoroughly impressed. That is looking like a proper 6k finish! Looks like the finish off my King 6k, or maybe my Arashiyama 6k.

I love the fact Venev is putting dedicated effort into bonded diamond stones. There's money there. The race is on. Three dimensional diamond abrasives are the Mecca. Looking forward to getting my hands on some in the near-ish future.
 
I know both knives are very sharp just coming off the 6K stones without any stropping I'm very impressed with these stones so far.
 
Hello Wade, did Konstantin let it be known when these would come available to the general public? Sounds like they are still undergoing the R&D phase?
 
How do they compare to the original 1200 venev?

I didn't have a problem with the bond losing diamond but the finish wasn't as consistent as other diamond waterstones.

Is this just an improvement to the scratch pattern?
 
He did not say and I do not know if I'm one of just a few testers or if they sent out a bunch to lot's of people.
I will ask Konstantin if he has any idea as to when the public may see them.

Rhodies said:
Hello Wade, did Konstantin let it be known when these would come available to the general public? Sounds like they are still undergoing the R&D phase?
Click to expand...
 
I'm going to sharpen another knife using the original 1200 Venev stone it's been a while since I used these stones and I will compare the two.

Konstantin told me that they had a problem with the diamonds falling out but to what degree I don't know and that could have had to do with other fact's I was told about and mentioned above in this thread,another problem is when the stone sit's in storage for a while I guess the bonding matrix may still be curing or doing something like that because Konstantin said that the stone part itself compress's and is strong enough it can bend the aluminum blank.

They are also trying to get the scratch pattern to be refined and so the edge does not look so scratched up either after you are done.

DeadboxHero said:
How do they compare to the original 1200 venev?

I didn't have a problem with the bond losing diamond but the finish wasn't as consistent as other diamond waterstones.

Is this just an improvement to the scratch pattern?
Click to expand...
 
curious of the compression of the bonding material as you mentioned is why there is a warp to the aluminum. Hit and miss if venev bonded diamond show up flat on the aluminum side.
 
From what I was told both bend the stone and the blank.

Roikyou said:
curious of the compression of the bonding material as you mentioned is why there is a warp to the aluminum. Hit and miss if venev bonded diamond show up flat on the aluminum side.
Click to expand...
 
Well, the real story behind these bars is a little bit different. Since I read russian I am watching some of the biggest russian forums. One of the factory managers has a very long thread about venev production where all of the more known faces in the sharpening world testing the bars.
Basically, venev bars ( any size) has 3 big cons.:
1. The bars comes out of the factory crooked or twisted. Some more, some less. This is something they can not control. It is the result of the technology they use. So most of the time you have to make them flat and it can be a pain in the ass and very time consuming, but after that, they need very little service.
2. Venev plant manufacturing 200/160 ( around 80 grit) micron stones, but very often that particular resin cannot hold the abrasive and you rip out most of the diamonds from the matrix. There are mixed reviews on this granularity. I believe it depends on the sharpening technic and how much force you applying. I have only one stone in 200/160 and it looks like it is true (at least partly).
3. All the bars with abrasive smaller than 7/5 micron (around 2k grit) will abrade more aggressive than 7/5 micron. Guys had many ideas why it's happening. Some blamed agglomeration of the abrasive. Others blamed the Resin. The resin they use is B2-01 and it was never designed to work with a tiny abrasive particles. Factory representative denied the problem exists ( yeah....) and claimed that you have to prepare the surface with polishing the stone with diamond paste on the glass. The guys proved him wrong with a microscope shots of the edge. It does not matter what causes this phenomena. If you would ask anyone in the russian knife community, he would say don't buy anything higher than 7/5 micron.
I have many different venev sets in the different concentrations and I can confirm that it is true.

So the factory decided that high grit stones should be with more appropriate bond and they have started to experiment. Then they coming up with something they send it to test. I don't know when they will come up with a new resin formulation, it should be soon. But I believe it will be more expensive.
 
Either way whatever the reason is I hope they get it figured out and the stones work good,I really like their stones for the most part and hope they don't screw thing's up.
 
Yes. In my opinion 100/80; 50/40; 20/14 and 7/5 are really good stones and you get 4 grits in 2 bench stones. That's a great deal for the price. By the way, the new resin formula is getting good feedback, so I guess very soon we will see a new product
 
With those new resin bond stones I got with the naked eye the scratch's you see the pictures I posted are very hard to see I just can't remember the same stone in the original bind is like and I'm going to do another sharpening to see because I think it was a more scratchy look.
 
Did you ever compare the finish to the older 1200? Any word on when these new stones may be available?
 
I'm going to try comparing them and I feel you get a better edge on S110v for sure,I just got a few new knives and I'm going to be sharpening them but I'm not sure when as I have to wait to get a dremel bit so I can grind away a bit of the blade,it's a Benchmade 940 if your wondering and the problem is if you use a guided system on that knife where the choil is the blade a bit thicker there and you need to grind the choil forward more a bit i you don't on a system like the KME Tsprof or Edge Pro the blade will develop a bit of a recurve in it.

I don't know when Venev is planning on releasing the formal stones but if you ask Gritomatic Konstantin will have a better idea as to when it will happen,when I sharpen my new knives I'll upload pictures of the new and old stone results.
 
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Venev Edge Pro 1200 grit with new OCB binder will come in stock in late December.

We will start embedding 800 OCB and 1200 OCB to our product matrix in Q1'2019.
800 OCB + 1200 OCB will be the ultra-fine dual-side diamond in 8"x3" and 6"x1" including Hapstone diamond bundle, and pocket size as well. We will make pocket diamond as cheap as possible to encourage testing
Edge Pro format will have 800 OCB and 1200 OCB.
OCB will coexist with the legacy binder. 2000 grit will be legacy only.
OCB binder does not solve the problem of bending. It's for sake of a better scratch pattern only.
ETA US stock - February; russian stock - late December.
Venev-Diamond-OCB-EdgePro.jpg
 
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