New Strongarm

I ordered one because its non coated. I held off of Strongarms even when I saw it down at $40 on holiday sales. But been wanting an uncoated one and I guess Santa answered. An uncoated with better steel is fine by me. But I saw on U-tube, where I stumbled on the Grey's existance, is due to stone washing, one can't strike a ferrorod one it.

I have 3 black fine edge ones, two are in the line up for general use but the 3rd had to come out of its box to play also. The serrated one I got reminded me I hate serrations, but I keep it in the car in case I have to cut a belt or break some glass. But I found its great at getting heavy ice off the windshield and the shallow breaker sure breaks up the ice on the iced windshield wipers! Some times I have to use the black one to clear ice out around the door.
 
Any branded steel has got to be better than 420hc of unknown origin. Carpenter will likely assist Gerber in technical expertise with regard to HT, and only 2000 made why do I bother getting excited. Has at least .6% carbon, at least equivalent to 12c27 which was what was first used, I believe, and will hold an edge better and longer than 420HC. Much cleaner too, is that a powder steel?
 
Yonose said:
Any branded steel has got to be better than 420hc of unknown origin. Carpenter will likely assist Gerber in technical expertise with regard to HT, and only 2000 made why do I bother getting excited. Has at least .6% carbon, at least equivalent to 12c27 which was what was first used, I believe, and will hold an edge better and longer than 420HC. Much cleaner too, is that a powder steel?
Click to expand...
No, you don't Powder low alloy steels, no reason to.
 
It's not the carbon, it's the alloy. The high amounts of chromium, molybdenum, Vanadium, tungsten, niobium. That stuff doesn't move around very well since the atoms are bigger and don't move around like the smaller carbon atoms do in the iron matrix. It becomes a problem when those alloying elements are in high volume, they can make the steel "clumpy" which is why alot of D2 sharpens like shit unless it has a special heat Treatment protocol from a maker that does their homework to break it all up.

The Powdering process helps by bypassing the alloys segregating during the cooling process of the cast ingot by atomizing molten steel through a spray nozzle in a large inert gas canister this keeps the alloy from clumping together as each droplet is like it's own ingot.


In the canister, the steel is put back together with heat and pressure and later it is then rolled out to size into barstock for makers to buy.

So you see, you don't Powder AEB-l or 52100 because it would be a waste of time, there is no need.
 
DeadboxHero said:
It's not the carbon, it's the alloy. The high amounts of chromium, molybdenum, Vanadium, tungsten, niobium. That stuff doesn't move around very well since the atoms are bigger and don't move around like the smaller carbon atoms do in the iron matrix. It becomes a problem when those alloying elements are in high volume, they can make the steel "clumpy" which is why alot of D2 sharpens like shit unless it has a special heat Treatment protocol from a maker that does their homework to break it all up.

The Powdering process helps by bypassing the alloys segregating during the cooling process of the cast ingot by atomizing molten steel through a spray nozzle in a large inert gas canister this keeps the alloy from clumping together as each droplet is like it's own ingot.


In the canister, the steel is put back together with heat and pressure and later it is then rolled out to size into barstock for makers to buy.

So you see, you don't Powder AEB-l or 52100 because it would be a waste of time, there is no need.
Click to expand...

154cm and cpm154 have identical alloy composition.
The main advantage of using powder metallurgy for knife steel, it seems, is the extraordinarily high levels of carbon it can attain. The reason for the high alloy content and the powder process is to get the hardest (and highest concentration of) carbides possible as fine and as evenly distributed as possible. What is considered “high carbon” for a conventional steel is under 1%, while ~3% is normal for a powder steel.
Since I’m pretty sure we agree on the relevant aspects, which aren’t really disputed, I’ll withdraw my question as trivial.
Thanks for your responses, made me realize how little I know about modern steels.
 
I don't know anything about this new steel (not a common one I come across) but the original Strongarm is a solid knife for $50. Yes, the 420hc isn't perfect but it has performed very well in general camping/hiking chores which is why I got it. It also has a pretty nice sheath too. Is this new steel worth an extra $15-20? I don't know but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Strongarm to anyone on a budget.
 
gazz98 said:
I don't know anything about this new steel (not a common one I come across) but the original Strongarm is a solid knife for $50. Yes, the 420hc isn't perfect but it has performed very well in general camping/hiking chores which is why I got it. It also has a pretty nice sheath too. Is this new steel worth an extra $15-20? I don't know but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Strongarm to anyone on a budget.
Click to expand...
I'd say it's worth it. But that will be different for every person. As he mentioned, if you already have the 420hc there is little reason for updating to the new version. If you don't have one at all the Bdz-1 would be idea to get. Better to sharpen, keeps edge longer, not as soft etc. Wonder what hrc the Bdz-1 is?
 
Yonose said:
154cm and cpm154 have identical alloy composition.
The main advantage of using powder metallurgy for knife steel, it seems, is the extraordinarily high levels of carbon it can attain. The reason for the high alloy content and the powder process is to get the hardest (and highest concentration of) carbides possible as fine and as evenly distributed as possible. What is considered “high carbon” for a conventional steel is under 1%, while ~3% is normal for a powder steel.
Since I’m pretty sure we agree on the relevant aspects, which aren’t really disputed, I’ll withdraw my question as trivial.
Thanks for your responses, made me realize how little I know about modern steels.
Click to expand...
Oh, there are advantages to Powdering steels like 154cm and bg42.
Makes them Tougher and Sharpen better.

Mo2 said:
I'd say it's worth it. But that will be different for every person. As he mentioned, if you already have the 420hc there is little reason for updating to the new version. If you don't have one at all the Bdz-1 would be idea to get. Better to sharpen, keeps edge longer, not as soft etc. Wonder what hrc the Bdz-1 is?
Click to expand...

I'm curious too, they say on there website that the steel can be harder, I wonder if Gerber had the balls to push it to 60 HRC?

The steel is a welcome upgrade to 420hc.
I'd totally buy one if I was in the market for a budget "thumper"
The stonewash is a welcome addition as well.

The price does put it in range of the cold steel SRK in Sk5 Carbon steel though. Think I might rather have that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mo2
bt93 said:
Just thought I'd give a heads up about a new Gerber Strong Arm. It's made with BDZ-1 steel, which I have never heard of. I'm assuming it's a cheap super steel. Just when I think I know of most knife steels, here's a new one, atleast to me it's new.
Click to expand...
You haven't heard of it because everyone else stopped using it years ago.

I don't have any real issue with the steel. It's fine, but it's old hat and nowhere near competitive. Gerber seems to be trying, but it's still a knife company run by accountants. I'll pass.
 
I have little good to say about Gerber. Gerbers' are best bought on sale because they are overpriced.
A coated 420HC blade at .45% Carbon compared to an uncoated blade at .65% isn't worth their price difference. At least they could have bumped up to BD-1 steel for that price.
 
It's really a shame because I quite like the design of the knife. Seems like an s30v version coming in around $100 would've been a better use of their effort.
 
Well after doing a good number of rascally rabbits...ok snowshoe hares, the Grey Gerber is a pretty dang nice knife. One thing I think I'd like is no stone wash. I think they do that to cut down the tool markings on the knife. (The last part is a totally unedumacated guess by a knife user not a knife master maker).
 
While I don’t own one, I’ve considered this model and the ghostrike in this steel, mainly for the carrying options. I have a fixed blade gerber gator in 30v and a gator folder in 154cm that have worked out fine; the thickness of the strong arm seems like a good match for the .6% carbon stainless carpenter steel. Plus the sheath is made in the US and I hear is of good quality.
 
BDZ1 steel is nothing to write home abt. I did buy this BDZ1 knife but I wish they would manufacture one with CPM-20CV or S35VN. BDZ1 is pretty bad steel but so was 420HC.

"Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors" on YouTube have tested BDZ1, and it is easily in the bottom third of all steels tested. There test is, "Standard Worksharp edge test (20 degrees micro convex for most tests. 17 degree edges on UNLEASHED tests) unless otherwise noted. The test counts the number of cuts to sisal rope."

KEY
Steel, Cuts - Knife

CPM REX 121(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge(LANSKY)), 925 to 950 - Creely Knives
Maxamet(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 810 - Spyderco Manix 2, 17 degree edge, toothy
Maxamet, 563 - Spyderco Manix 2, 20 degree edge
S110V (UNLEASHED - 17dg edge) 500 - Spyderco Para 3
CPM M4(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 489 - Spyderco
K390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 480 - Spyderco
CPM 4V, 475 - Bark River Knives, Kephart 5
S90V(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Benchmade Altitude
M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Steel Will Cutjack; M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 425 - REPLACEMENT Steel Will Modus
HAP40(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 415 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
CPM 10V, 389 - Spyderco K2
Cru Wear(Polished Edge), 375 - Creely Knives
CTS-XHP (UNLEASHED), 370 - Cold Steel American Lawman, 17 degrees per side and polished edge
CPM 20CV, 351 - Benchmade Griptillian 555-1
Cru Wear(UNLEASHED - 17dg toothy edge 600 grit), 350 - Creely Knives
ZDP189, 336 - Spyderco Endura
M390, 334 - Lionsteel TRE; 400 cuts at 20 degrees on mirror polished edge - WE Knives 620j
CTS 204P, 321 - Spyderco Southard
ELMAX (Unleashed), 320 - Microtec DOC (20 degree mirror polished edge)
HAP40, 300 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
CPM S110V, 295 - Spyderco Paramilitary 2; 281 - Spyderco Manix 2
SGPS, 291- Fallkniven U2
CTS 40CP, 285 - Strider SNG
CPM M4, 280 - Benchmade Contego; 224 - Spyderco Mantra
CPM S90V, 278 - Spyderco Native 5
S30V (UNLEASHED), 260 - 17DPS Polished Edge on Spyderco Sage
K390, 242 - Spyderco Police 4
CTS XHP, 242 - Cold Steel Broken Skull
ELMAX, 236 - Zero Tolerance 0562
LC200N, 226 - Spyderco Spydiechef
Vanadis 4, 225 - Zero Tolerance 0180 (???? 4V?)
CPM 3V, 209 - Cold Steel Master Hunter; 198, Bark River Bravo 1 LT
CPM S35VN, 198 - Kizer Gemini; 194, ZT0220; 187 - Reeve Sebenza
A2, 191 - Bark River JX6 (BRK does A2 right)
Laminated CoS, 176 - Fallkniven PC
CPM S30V, 175 - Benchmade 940; 190 - Spyderco Sage
Aogami Blue Steel, 140 - Higo No Kami; 210 - Higo No Kami UNLEASHED, 14 degree edge
NIOLOX, 135 - Lionsteel T5
154CM, 124 - Leatherman Skeletool CX
D2, 120 - Ontario Rat 1 (Ontario does D2 right)
.
.
.
BDZ1, 75 - Gerber Strongarm
14c28n, 71 - Real Steel E571
.
.
.
420HC, 50 - Gerber Strongarm
 
Wait... At 75 cuts, doesn't it kinda match up to 1095 Cro-Van, VG-10, Sandvik 14C28N? I recall VG-10 and 1095 Cro-Van being around there and standard 1095 being around 67 or so. In that case, it can't be that bad?

Interesting that he got 50 cuts out of his, compared with 44 on his Leatherman Surge. I personally find the 420HC on my Strongarm is noticeably softer than on my Leatherman Surge and Kershaw Link. All in all, I like everything about the knife except the steel, I ended up going back to my Ka-Bar.
 
Tommy-Chi said:
BDZ1 steel is nothing to write home abt. I did buy this BDZ1 knife but I wish they would manufacture one with CPM-20CV or S35VN. BDZ1 is pretty bad steel but so was 420HC.

"Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors" on YouTube have tested BDZ1, and it is easily in the bottom third of all steels tested. There test is, "Standard Worksharp edge test (20 degrees micro convex for most tests. 17 degree edges on UNLEASHED tests) unless otherwise noted. The test counts the number of cuts to sisal rope."

KEY
Steel, Cuts - Knife

CPM REX 121(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge(LANSKY)), 925 to 950 - Creely Knives
Maxamet(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 810 - Spyderco Manix 2, 17 degree edge, toothy
Maxamet, 563 - Spyderco Manix 2, 20 degree edge
S110V (UNLEASHED - 17dg edge) 500 - Spyderco Para 3
CPM M4(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 489 - Spyderco
K390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 480 - Spyderco
CPM 4V, 475 - Bark River Knives, Kephart 5
S90V(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Benchmade Altitude
M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Steel Will Cutjack; M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 425 - REPLACEMENT Steel Will Modus
HAP40(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 415 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
CPM 10V, 389 - Spyderco K2
Cru Wear(Polished Edge), 375 - Creely Knives
CTS-XHP (UNLEASHED), 370 - Cold Steel American Lawman, 17 degrees per side and polished edge
CPM 20CV, 351 - Benchmade Griptillian 555-1
Cru Wear(UNLEASHED - 17dg toothy edge 600 grit), 350 - Creely Knives
ZDP189, 336 - Spyderco Endura
M390, 334 - Lionsteel TRE; 400 cuts at 20 degrees on mirror polished edge - WE Knives 620j
CTS 204P, 321 - Spyderco Southard
ELMAX (Unleashed), 320 - Microtec DOC (20 degree mirror polished edge)
HAP40, 300 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
CPM S110V, 295 - Spyderco Paramilitary 2; 281 - Spyderco Manix 2
SGPS, 291- Fallkniven U2
CTS 40CP, 285 - Strider SNG
CPM M4, 280 - Benchmade Contego; 224 - Spyderco Mantra
CPM S90V, 278 - Spyderco Native 5
S30V (UNLEASHED), 260 - 17DPS Polished Edge on Spyderco Sage
K390, 242 - Spyderco Police 4
CTS XHP, 242 - Cold Steel Broken Skull
ELMAX, 236 - Zero Tolerance 0562
LC200N, 226 - Spyderco Spydiechef
Vanadis 4, 225 - Zero Tolerance 0180 (???? 4V?)
CPM 3V, 209 - Cold Steel Master Hunter; 198, Bark River Bravo 1 LT
CPM S35VN, 198 - Kizer Gemini; 194, ZT0220; 187 - Reeve Sebenza
A2, 191 - Bark River JX6 (BRK does A2 right)
Laminated CoS, 176 - Fallkniven PC
CPM S30V, 175 - Benchmade 940; 190 - Spyderco Sage
Aogami Blue Steel, 140 - Higo No Kami; 210 - Higo No Kami UNLEASHED, 14 degree edge
NIOLOX, 135 - Lionsteel T5
154CM, 124 - Leatherman Skeletool CX
D2, 120 - Ontario Rat 1 (Ontario does D2 right)
.
.
.
BDZ1, 75 - Gerber Strongarm
14c28n, 71 - Real Steel E571
.
.
.
420HC, 50 - Gerber Strongarm
Click to expand...

Would you mind posting a link for those test results in full? I am curious to see them in their entirety. There are some surprises in them, for me at least. Thanks!
 
115Italian said:
Gerber is doing sprint runs with the strong arm. My guess is they’re experimenting as an effort to redeem the company. Poor start in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Redeem the company? Strong arm is a decent knife and made here. I would rather own it than any CS product, give Gerber a little bit of credit for having at least one decent product,
 
Last edited:
It was right there in the link in post #5 back in November!

"Proprietary Equivalents: 6Cr14MoV, 6Cr14"

So, a step down from the 7cr17mov and 8Cr13Mov common in budget knives. Explains why it says it's most commonly "...used for razor blades and other utility applications..." ie. box cutters and Schick razor blades.

I am no steel expert, but this is what I'm reading. At least it's not Kershaw Embarassment Steel: 3Cr13.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top