New to Knife Making Need some advice

J

JUSTAKNIFEGUY

Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
2
So from the title its clear this is new to me.

I have made 3 knives so far but only from mild steel so they are just for looks

The tools I have right now are

HF 1x30 grinder
Drill Press
HF Porta Band set up to stand up right with a table
Heavy Duty vise
Many files
Safety Gear
Hack Saws
and most hand tools a normal auto style mechanic would have in his tool box


I am not happy with the HF belt grinder its well a piece of shit , doesnt track right, under powered, crappy table, and so on

What would you recommend i do if i only want to spend around 120-150 on a new grinder?
 
So from the title its clear this is new to me.

I have made 3 knives so far but only from mild steel so they are just for looks

The tools I have right now are

HF 1x30 grinder
Drill Press
HF Porta Band set up to stand up right with a table
Heavy Duty vise
Many files
Safety Gear
Hack Saws
and most hand tools a normal auto style mechanic would have in his tool box


I am not happy with the HF belt grinder its well a piece of shit , doesnt track right, under powered, crappy table, and so on

What would you recommend i do if i only want to spend around 120-150 on a new grinder?

I would be open to building something or buying what ever would be the best grinder
 
The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V32

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than a 60 year old machinist
We have members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or helpful neighbour.
Please join our community and fill out your profile with location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment and hobbies so we get a sense of where and who you are.

Look at the threads stuck to the top of the page.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3622507/Jones-Scott-Jonesy-Absolute-Cheapskate-Way-to-Start-Making-Knives


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/cache/articles/nw1/scales1.htm

Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive.

Knife Design:
Think thin. Forget swords, saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Look at hundreds of photos

Start with a drawing and show us, we love to comment on photos.
French curves, graph paper and an eraser are vital tools.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bHFtVNs9tWA/TEj5Quiq1ZI/AAAAAAAAAI0/rn2EoHoXpVc/s1600/The+French+Curve.jpg

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1147466-How?p=13120810#post13120810

Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such.
Use playdough to shape a comfortable handle, good handles are not flat.

How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns in a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - A modern book with colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now if you prefer paper books

The $50 knife Shop-not recommended
This book has a great title, but is NOT gospel. It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench BS, Even back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for some steels like 1084.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spike, start with a new known steel.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply, and quench in Canola.

Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders free plans are now on the web.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too - spend some time searching.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

See a list of videos for rent and read the reviews, Some are good, some bad, expect to wait weeks or months

http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Nick Wheeler- Hand sanding 101 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I4x4QLpfnk

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 or CPM-s35vn and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.



Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
The best explanation and classification oil speeds I've seen
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084

Brine and water are cheap, and technically correct for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095 but a fast oil like Parks 50 or Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades
If you use water or brine, expect to hear a "tink" and have a cracked or broken blade

Glue – Epoxy
Use a new package of slow setting 30 min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and seal out moisture.
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean and no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Don't over clamp it. Avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
Use:
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ#t=330

Grinders
A professional three or four wheel 2x72 is worth it
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.metalwebnews.com/manuals/knife-grinder.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
You may find them cheaper at other retailers and on Ebay direct from china.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html

VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.

The 1.5 HP combination is the most common, as reported by Rob Frink
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can burnout the unit.
It has good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Goggle "Ed Caffrey lung cancer"
Wearing a mask on the top of your head doesn't count.

The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching

This Google page searches BF and works well.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Can I get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504

V32 Jan 27, 2014 Nick Wheeler hand sanding 101 added

Darrin Sander is no longer HT'ing blades.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1074496-I-m-no-longer-heat-treating-blades

Countavatar.jpg
 
The Count gives salient advice. The references he gives are a top-notch place to start, and it will help introduce you to some really great and innovative knifemakers and their craft.

I am far from an expert. I try to pay attention when others share. So take my humble opinions with a grain of salt, and if someone with more experience speaks up, their advice is likely better.

Knifemaking is not a cheap endeavor. Well, let me rephrase that, the path you're going down in knifemaking does not appear as inexpensive as you would like. Wonderful knives can be created with hand-tools. Files, sandpaper, a hammer, decent epoxy, handle material, and steel suitable for stock removal methods of knifemaking are all you really need. You can send it out for HT, or build a simple forge and try it yourself (after you do a lot of reading on steels suitable for backyard heat-treating, which IMHO narrows it down to high-carbons 1084 and below).

The advantages of a GOOD belt grinder for knifemaking are almost immeasurable. It makes grinding bevels less arduous and time consuming. Fitting and shaping scales becomes easier, and so on. But, the problem with having a $130ish dollar ceiling is that you're going to be chasing a golden goose. You're simply never going to be happy unless you somehow find a grizzly or the like at yard-sale prices. If you want a knifemaking grinder, you're going to have to save. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with a grizzly for a beginner. Detail work is a bit more difficult since it only goes one speed (really fast), but still usable (I'll always own one and I have other more expensive grinders).
 
JUSTAKNIFEGUY said:
What would you recommend i do if i only want to spend around 120-150 on a new grinder?
Click to expand...

My recommendation would be to save your money and spend some time learning to use the files. Just as you now see the money spent on the HF 1x30 as a waste, so will you continue to see money spent on substandard tools as wasted.

Others will tell you to get a 2x42, and how they did wonders with one. Well and good. Most of them, however, now have a 2x72 and only just remember the days they used that sander as a grinder.

Here's the thing, there will never be enough money to buy the right tool if you keep spending the money on the wrong tools.

Files, on the other hand, are readily available and are useful at teaching you how to create bevels of all types. Surely not the fastest method, but that's one reason it works so well as a learning aid.

So hang on to that 1x30, and use it to shape handles. You'll find it quite useful for that. And use the files to shape metal. All the while setting money aside for the day you can get a real grinder. And when that day comes you will have many of the skills needed to use the new grinder... all because you waited and learned.

Good luck on your quest!
 
so long story short i got banned from my other acount because somehow i typed in the wrong password when creating it and now i dont know it. so here i am new account

thank all of you for the great advice and Im starting to realize a lot of hand filing is in my future (until i save for a 2x72)

I was wondering what all of you thought about building a 2x48 or 1x42 and so on.

They seem to be less money than a 2x72 but still just as good? i realize this would be more than $130ish but i could be grinding sooner with one
 
justakniveguy said:
so long story short i got banned from my other acount because somehow i typed in the wrong password when creating it and now i dont know it. so here i am new account

thank all of you for the great advice and Im starting to realize a lot of hand filing is in my future (until i save for a 2x72)

I was wondering what all of you thought about building a 2x48 or 1x42 and so on.

They seem to be less money than a 2x72 but still just as good? i realize this would be more than $130ish but i could be grinding sooner with one
Click to expand...

You're not banned unless it says so under your name

go here

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/f...upport-General-Q-amp-A-Site-Feedback-amp-More

ask for help if you need it.
 
Your HF will still save you time over hand working your knife, just work within its limitations. I've used mine for shaping the handles, guards and blades. At a point in the process it looses the precision necessary for carrying on. A couple of posters in the past have made some very nice knives using the 1X30.
 
To answer your question.... a 2X48 or 1X42, or any of those, are not even on the same planet as a quality 2X72 knife maker's grinder.

Power, tracking, versatility... it's like a Geo Metro compared to a Hummer.
 
Last edited:
Craigslist, the Exchange (here on BladeForums) and eBay will become good friends if you are patient in your searching BUT deadly serious when it does become time to strike on a deal when it appears.

You are embarking on an adventure enjoy the planning phases.

Ask lots of questions too.................... people here will help you.

Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top