New to Knifemaking

L

lloydxmas250

Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
31
So I don't really even believe that I'm making my first knife because I'm using a pre-made blade. Basically I'm attaching scales and shaping them. I don't feel that really qualifies as knifemaking. But I also lack all of the equipment to make a knife from a blank. My issue is that my wife and I are in the process of buying our first house. As we never had a place we owned I haven't invested in any kinds of large tools like drill presses or belt sanders or even a nice solid work bench. But as the house should be coming soon I will start purchasing tools.

My big question is, how many kits should I make before thinking about trying from a blank? I don't want to get in over my head too fast but at the same time the best way to learn is to jump in. I was thinking of producing a couple of knives for family b-days but they are soon so they would be the pre-made blades and I would be getting some exotic woods and pins to dress them up. Can I even honestly say if I give these knives as gifts that I made them?

I ask because I assume many have started where I am and I'm curious to know their feelings on kits.
 
You can honestly say you bought the blades and put on the handle scales. Have you read the stickies above ? Lots of good info there. Frank
 
Nothing wrong with kits.Just be honest.Tell folks you bought the blade and handled it.I made about a dozen kits when I started before I made my first from scratch.
Welcome to our addiction and have fun.

Stan
 
I started out with kits. There are a ton of articles, WIP's, "stickies" here on the forums with a lot of available information. Just start searching and get to reading. Read. Don't forget that there's also some sunlight outside :). Also, Youtube can be a good source of video demonstrations. Just remember that not every demonstration is the best method or even the safest. There are also a number of books with a great deal of information and very helpful demonstrations and steps to help you. Read. Then go read some more. Then take a break and at some point read a bit more. It really helps. At one point I realized not every method of making a knife is the best method for me. And while it would be great if I had the money to purchase some high-end machines to make knives, it's best to observe and learn the process and think more in terms of how could one accomplish a similar result using more traditional methods or with more accessible technology. Oh, and be sure to read.

:)
 
Yeah. I wasn't ever going to try and pass the blade as something I made. I don't have the tools to make them yet. I guess I can make those now and then when I get started on real blades they'll be better gifts the next time.

I'll be sure to post pictures of the first knife I'm assembling (not making) when I am finished. I currently have the handles rough cut and drilled. Although without a drill press I angled one hole a slight bit and the pin isn't wanting to insert all the way. I'll use a little sand paper to ever so slightly widen the hole to allow the pin enough room. I guess even handle making can be quite a learning experience.
 
The first step is to fill out your profile. This is necessary so we know where you are and a bit about you ..... like age, hobbies, occupation, etc.

Make a few kits, and then you will be itching for some steel to work on.

When ready to do one from scratch all you will need is a few files, some sandpaper, and a big load of determination.
Next step will be to draw up your blade plan and post it here. After it has been critiqued ( and modified if needed), I will cut out the profile in the steel you want and send it to you.
From there you can use the tutorial in the stickies to work the knife with hand tools. When ready for HT one of us here will be glad to do it for you.

In the mean time read the stickies and the info there, especially the tutorial on "How To Instructions for Making a Knife".

The Count will probably chime in soon with his standard reply to Newbies.
 
bladsmth said:
The first step is to fill out your profile. This is necessary so we know where you are and a bit about you ..... like age, hobbies, occupation, etc.

Make a few kits, and then you will be itching for some steel to work on.

When ready to do one from scratch all you will need is a few files, some sandpaper, and a big load of determination.
Next step will be to draw up your blade plan and post it here. After it has been critiqued ( and modified if needed), I will cut out the profile in the steel you want and send it to you.
From there you can use the tutorial in the stickies to work the knife with hand tools. When ready for HT one of us here will be glad to do it for you.

In the mean time read the stickies and the info there, especially the tutorial on "How To Instructions for Making a Knife".

The Count will probably chime in soon with his standard reply to Newbies.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words and advice. That's awesome if you can cut the steel. I'll definitely keep that in mind when I want to move to the next step but may not have all the right tools yet.

I've been cruising through the stickies and finding a lot of good pointers. Once I make a couple of kits and know I can handle that I'll move on. Thanks again.
 
lloydxmas250 said:
Thanks for the kind words and advice. That's awesome if you can cut the steel. I'll definitely keep that in mind when I want to move to the next step but may not have all the right tools yet.

I've been cruising through the stickies and finding a lot of good pointers. Once I make a couple of kits and know I can handle that I'll move on. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

All you need to make it happen is a couple files, a fair amount of sandpaper in varying grits, say 120 up to about 800 or 100, something to clamp the blade on which can be a piece of wood C-Clamped to a table and a few spring clamps to hold it down. And a whole lot of elbow grease. That's about the bare minimum you need.
 
The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V30

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than a 60 year old machinist
We have members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or helpful neighbour.
Please join our community and fill out your profile with location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment and hobbies so we get a sense of where and who you are.

Look at the threads stuck to the top of the page.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
http://www.prepperlinks.net/uploads/9/0/4/0/9040002/making_simple_knives.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3622507/Jones-Scott-Jonesy-Absolute-Cheapskate-Way-to-Start-Making-Knives


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq

Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive.

Knife Design:
Think thin. Forget swords, saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing and show us, we love to comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such.
Use playdough to shape a comfortable handle, good handles are not flat.

How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns in a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - A modern book with colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now if you prefer paper books

The $50 knife Shop
This book has a great title, but is NOT gospel. It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench BS, Even back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for some steels like 1084.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spike, start with a new known steel.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply, and quench in Canola.

Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders free plans are now on the web.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too - spend some time searching.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

See a list of videos for rent and read the reviews, Some are good, some bad, expect to wait weeks or months

http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 or CPM-s35vn and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.

(Darrin Sanders now offers HT on single blades in oil hardening steels)

Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
The best explanation and classification oil speeds I've seen
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084

Brine and water are cheap, and technically correct for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095 but a fast oil like Parks 50 or Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades
If you use water or brine, expect to hear a "tink" and have a cracked or broken blade

Glue – Epoxy
Use a new package of slow setting 30 min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and seal out moisture.
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean and no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Don't' over clamp to avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
Use:
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg


Grinders
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
You may find them cheaper at other retailers and on Ebay direct from china.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html

VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.

The 1.5 HP combination is the most common, as reported by Rob Frink
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can burnout the unit.
It has good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Goggle "Ed Caffrey lung cancer"
Wearing a mask on the top of your head doesn't count.

The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching

This Google page searches BF and works well.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Can I get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504

V30 June 3, 2013
Darrin Sander is no longer HT blades.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1074496-I-m-no-longer-heat-treating-blades
Countavatar.jpg
 
Last edited:
from my experiance the top 5 tools to get in no particular order

1. Files
2. A good belt grinder (expensive)
3. A metal band saw (particularly a portaband style saw with a swag offroad table)
4. good machinist vice with various jaws (leather , plastic , steel)
5. band-aids
 
I agree that I have all the tools to make a knife that's been cut out of a blank for me. I was talking all the big stuff that I would eventually get. Thanks for all the help guys. I have a lot of reading to do and practice.
 
IMHO the top 5 tools to START making knives are,

files of various sizes
drill press & good bits (Power hand drill could be made to work I suppose)
high tension hack saw and good blades
SOLID vise (making knives is a vice in itself but the wrong kind)
short bar-clamps (my preference) or various sizes of C-clamps

In 2008 I made eight to ten KSOs (knife shaped objects) with just these items. I now have a mighty Sears 2X42 grinder and would LOVE to have a real 2X72 grinder as well as a steel cutting band saw, and heat treating oven, and a whole lot more skill and ability to make the more costly tools worth getting. The hard part for me in starting was figuring out which steel to get and where to get it.

Good luck and have fun.

- Paul Meske
 
I will begin my first knife tomorrow once I get home and get the beginner kit from my front door. Bought it at USA knife making or something like that. Has pins, peice of 1084 bar stock, epoxy, G10 scales, and instructions.
 
Get a face mask of some sort if you are going to work G-10. It is a fiberglass product, and is bad to breath or get on your skin. Sand/file it outside, and hose off the work table and area. Dust off your self all over. Hose off your hands and arms, and then wash gently with soap and water.
 
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