New to sharpening and the forum

Spideyjg said:
It is like playing an instrument. Getting a bass guitar to make sound is not hard to learn. Learning how to really play it takes a long time and the quest for mastery never ends.

Sharpening is similar. How to rub steel on a rock to get an edge isn't hard. Getting proficient, a good refined edge, takes time. Mastery is a lifelong quest.

What the blade needs done to it is the first thing to determine. A just a bit dull knife is one thing, a poorly sharpened, chipped, broken tip etc. are whole other animals
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I can definitely relate to that. practice, practice, practice. It's obvious to me now that the more you practice the more you start noticing what could be improved to get a sharper edge.

To me so far is that I'm starting no a lower angle but can't maintain it through out. So my goal for later today will be to sharpen a knife from beginning to end at a high-ish angle and check if there's any improvement.

Question:

When pushing and pulling, do the direction of your strokes matter? For example, is it ok if I use a 90º angle to sharp the heel and then switch to a 45+º for the rest of the knife? Will these scratch patterns be replaced by the time I start stroping?
 
I think your guess about the tip is correct: Many sharpeners raise the angle a bit at the tip, which apexes that part of the blade first. It will be at a higher angle, which is not exactly what you are looking for, but it will apex first. I've done this many times myself.

The heel requires some special attention. Because it is where you start, you will tend to not grind there as much as the rest. Use Secrets #1 and #2 to focus grinding on the heel. They will help you with the rest of the blade too. Use Observation to find out where you are grinding and try to match the factory angle. This will get you fairly quick results (since you are duplicating the angle), and you should get a fairly consistent edge. You will probably observe, at some point, that the factory grind is not all that consistent! You can fix this as you go along.

I wouldn't start at a "high angle". I would try to match the factory angle. A high angle will probably give you faster results though. So perhaps it's a good experiment.

I'm happy to see how much time and effort you are putting towards this. :) Best of luck in your sharpening.

Brian.
 
Get a Sharpie. Mark the edge bevel along the entire length on one side. Take a few strokes and check. If you're taking the marker off the shoulder, you're too low. If just off the very edge, too high. Strive to remove the marker evenly across the width of the edge. Keep at it until marker is gone and burr is raised. Repeat on other side.
 
bgentry said:
I think your guess about the tip is correct: Many sharpeners raise the angle a bit at the tip, which apexes that part of the blade first. It will be at a higher angle, which is not exactly what you are looking for, but it will apex first. I've done this many times myself.

The heel requires some special attention. Because it is where you start, you will tend to not grind there as much as the rest. Use Secrets #1 and #2 to focus grinding on the heel. They will help you with the rest of the blade too. Use Observation to find out where you are grinding and try to match the factory angle. This will get you fairly quick results (since you are duplicating the angle), and you should get a fairly consistent edge. You will probably observe, at some point, that the factory grind is not all that consistent! You can fix this as you go along.

I wouldn't start at a "high angle". I would try to match the factory angle. A high angle will probably give you faster results though. So perhaps it's a good experiment.

I'm happy to see how much time and effort you are putting towards this. :) Best of luck in your sharpening.

Brian.
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Thanks for the tips! I've been having trouble finding the factory angle with the knives I've used so far, they have rather tiny bevels, makes it harder to figure our when the bevel is sitting flat on the stone. which is why I decided to choose an angle and go with it. Not ideal, I know.

Eli Chaps said:
Get a Sharpie. Mark the edge bevel along the entire length on one side. Take a few strokes and check. If you're taking the marker off the shoulder, you're too low. If just off the very edge, too high. Strive to remove the marker evenly across the width of the edge. Keep at it until marker is gone and burr is raised. Repeat on other side.
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I actually done that. The problem is that I think at some point I mess up, maybe even when I'm refining the edge (after I'm convinced that I'm doing a good job).

I gotta be honest, I'm starting to get really anxious for that Naniwa angle guide clip to get here. I'm getting the pleasure of free hand sharpening, however I would love to be able to confirm if my problem is mostly with inconsistent angles. Using that guide will probably confirm that for me. If it's just the angle I will know I just need more practice to keep it consistent. If I learn it's not the angle I'll have to figure out what I'm doing wrong... and practicing, practicing, practicing.

It seems it will arrive today. I just hope it doesn't ruin my stones.
 
Lower the angle,and get consistent burr along whole blade,then raise angle little and alternate sides to take burr off.Most knives when new from factory are thick behind edge and need to be thinned out,after that sharpening is easy.Look up Cliff Stamp sharpening video on youtube too,its its simple and explains everything.That and Murrays video is all you need.
 
lonestar1979 said:
Lower the angle,and get consistent burr along whole blade,then raise angle little and alternate sides to take burr off.Most knives when new from factory are thick behind edge and need to be thinned out,after that sharpening is easy.Look up Cliff Stamp sharpening video on youtube too,its its simple and explains everything.That and Murrays video is all you need.
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Thanks Mate! I watched a bunch of those, but it's always good to come back and absorb some more.

I did try to raise the angle alternating strokes to remove the burr. Had success.... but... suspect I managed to destroy some of the edge while doing this.
 
I'm not concerned about following factory angles when freehand sharpening. Many of them are too wide, and often the area behind the edge is too thick, both resulting in inferior performance (thin edges cut better than thick edges). I want an edge specifically for what I need, which is often not what comes from the factory.

Angle consistency is important but I don't worry if I'm off a few degrees from stroke to stroke. The worst that can happen is that I'll slightly convex the edge, which isn't a bad thing.

But I'm happy with good utility edges that are toothy (around 320-400 grit) and shaving sharp. I microbevel, so I can adjust that angle to help prevent rolling or chipping. I don't need refined and polished smooth edges, but they have their uses, too. It's important to sharpen according to what you need your knives to do.
 
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MtnHawk1 said:
I'm not concerned about following factory angles when freehand sharpening. Many of them are too wide, and often the area behind the edge is too thick, both resulting in inferior performance (thin edges cut better than thick edges). I want an edge specifically for what I need, which is often not what comes from the factory.

Angle consistency is important but I don't worry if I'm off a few degrees from stroke to stroke. The worst that can happen is that I'll slightly convex the edge, which isn't a bad thing.

But I'm happy with good utility edges that are toothy (around 320-400 grit) and shaving sharp. I microbevel, so I can adjust that angle to help prevent rolling or chipping. I don't need refined and polished smooth edges, but they have their uses, too. It's important to sharpen according to what you need your knives to do.
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I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. The use I'll have for these knifes is to cut magazine paper/newspaper and be impressed by how sharp it is. hahahaha

I wish I was joking. My main use is cutting meat for BBQ. My current knives do that very well thank you very much (and I have one of those sharpening devices that sucks but does its job). Also I understand that the edge doesn't need to be refined since it's to be used in slicing. I still went ahead and bought a 6000 grit. lol.

I just want to get the hang of this.

I'm all for creating a micro bevel to make the edge more durable... but not before I manage to get a simple edge razor sharp.

The progress is slow but you can actually see little improvement here and there after every session... that keeps me motivated.
 
Not to hijack but I use straight razors and have Chosera and Naniwa stones from 400-10000. I have seen a very wide variety of opinions on how high to go with a folding knife. Some say 4K-8k
And others say there is no need to go past 1k. I go to 8k on my kitchen knives but what do you guys recommend for a folder?
If I were to get some DMT diamond stones what grits would you recommend? I think I have a couple somewhere I use for lapping I think. Not sure where so I planned on getting more.
 
brukuns, everybody has their own uses for their knives and these often change over time. The important thing is to keep knives sharp, enjoy doing it, and do it safely. I personally wouldn't recommend a pull-through type of sharpening device but, as I said, I freehand sharpen to get the specific edges I want.

As I've written in other posts, I went through a lot of trial and error, frustration, and some expense, unfortunately, before I finally got it right. Even though I've been helped immensely from the knowledge and advice good people share on this forum, I was getting this info in bits and pieces. It wasn't until I understood the basic principles of sharpening, which are actually very simple, that the whole thing finally made sense and I could get sharp edges. The light came on for me when I read and studied The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch. I highly recommend it.

brukuns said:
I did try to raise the angle alternating strokes to remove the burr. Had success.... but... suspect I managed to destroy some of the edge while doing this.
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Use very LIGHT strokes, even sometimes just the weight of the blade. The apex is extremely thin after the burr is raised.

Also, I remove the burr from one side before I go to the other, but this may just be personal preference. The most important thing is to completely remove it without damaging the edge.
 
I had a newer knife that I was following the factory angles on, but could not get it very sharp. Then one night I looked at the knife in my hand and realized I was using too high of an angle. Last night I lowered the angle on a course stone. I worked it until sharpening at the lower angle started to get to the apex. Tonight I did it with a medium and fine stone. Now push cutting printer paper. Like you befor lowering the angle it was uneven across the whole blade. After lowering it was even across the blade. I have been hand sharpening for 35 to 40 years. It happens. Like I posted before keep marking the blade edge with a marker and look after taking several strokes. See what changes you need to make then remark and make your changes to your strokes and then look again. It takes time and patience.
 
Chris case said:
Not to hijack but I use straight razors and have Chosera and Naniwa stones from 400-10000. I have seen a very wide variety of opinions on how high to go with a folding knife. Some say 4K-8k
And others say there is no need to go past 1k. I go to 8k on my kitchen knives but what do you guys recommend for a folder?
If I were to get some DMT diamond stones what grits would you recommend? I think I have a couple somewhere I use for lapping I think. Not sure where so I planned on getting more.
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With few exceptions, none of my edges, kitchen or pocket, go beyond a 300 grit Ultra Sharp diamond or India Fine Stone (~400grit I think). I have little use for polished edges in these applications
 
Chris case, it really depends on personal preference and what you use your folder for. There are many threads and posts on toothy vs. smooth edges. I was going to suggest reading some of those but it looks like you've already done that. I'd advise just experimenting with different grits and see what works best for your needs. I don't use water stones and am not familiar with their particular grit classifications.

600 grit might be a good compromise starting point to find out if you want to stay with that or go with a lower or higher grit. DMT and Atoma both make 600 grit diamond plates, but these are relatively expensive. Until you find out what grit works best for you I'd suggest using a less expensive abrasive, such as silicon carbide.
 
Lots of updates, I did a lot of practice today.

firstly, that weird angle guide clip arrived and I used it on the first knife I tried to sharpen (it had quite a chip I had removed before already).

I worked mostly on my king 1000. The angle guide helped with the trouble I was getting to sharpen the heel, but belly and tip I was pretty much freehanding and sharpened them fine.

Can’t use that clip when stroping though, it feels weird. It’s just weird to do the strokes with that thing (and it makes an annoying sound and feels like it’s gonna damage the stone) so I removed it altogether at that point.

when I was done with the 1000 it was cutting ok. I made it better, sweet.
... than I decided to pull out the 6000 for the first time to feel it. I only did single edge trailing strokes. A few of them. What a difference! It shaved my arm hair like it was nothing!! Sharpest blade I worked on by far.

then I felt confident and decided to sharpen my good knife, because what the hell. Didn’t use the clip.

better steel, took forever to form a tiny burr on one side. than I moved to the other. Finally some single strokes and it was decent, so I moved to the 6000. again, single strokes edge trailing.

this time it didn’t feel too good. Did I ruin my good knife?! So I decided to do some light push and pulls on the 6000 before doing a stroping motion again. Made a huuuge difference. Not quite shaving sharp like the previous one but still pretty sharp. I super thrilled and can’t wait to have time to try more tomorrow.

My takeaways for today.

- that angle guide definitely helped at some level. Will try again although it feels weird on the stone.

- the 6000 To finish up makes a dramatic difference
 
Nice job.

That last post of yours suggests that your previous struggles were due to burr removal. The 6000 stone is allowing you to remove the burr more effectively when stropping on the stone. At lower grits it is easy to introduce what is effectively a new burr when too much pressure is used as the finishing stage.

burr removal is a pain in the ass and makes the difference between not sharp and very sharp
 
Id Iower the angle and thin out that blade first,factory grinds are in 99%of cases way too thick to cut efficiently and angle is too high.After you thin the blade out on low grit silicon carbide stone, raise angle little bit and sharpen it,makes huge difference in cutting and sharpening too later on.Thick edges and high angles can shave hair bit still cut poorly.Geometry of knife is very important,and thin is what cuts,unless you plan to use knife as prybar or something else,thats fine too,depends what you prefer.
 
I just tried to sharp that Santoku knife again... dayum, it's by far the sharpest so far.

After I did that I tried to sharpen that one good knife again... not good. running into a few problems.

That knife has a bit of a belly. I nearly straightened some of it, I'm so pissed I did that to my good knife. and it still have some dull spots right in there too. I'm not even going to mention the scratches on the profile... I didn't even move to the 6000 because I didn't do a good job on the 1000 and I was too tired to start over.

Here's a pic of ow that belly turned out... it looks worse up close.
pdEkW0V.jpg


I really want to thin it, it seems it really need it. But I have no idea how I'm going to accomplish that. Look what the heel looks like... it's gonna be hard, I have no idea how to do this. Also, it seems there's only a secondary bevel on one side... and it's subtle.
187LVhl.jpg


This seems like a complex job.I would really like to make this knife thinner though. Another pic to give you a better idea of what that looks like (and also to give you a look at that subtle secondary bevel... and a nasty stain which
i have no idea how happened)
a1EOySk.jpg



Question... do your arms get tired from doing this? Mine sure did.
 
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After some research I learned that the thing on the heel of the blade is a Bolster.

I'll probably have to take it to a blade smith to have that removed, I don't really like it and it gets in the way sharpening the heel big time.

As for the f**k up in the belly of the knife, Maybe I can ask the bladesmith to fix that too or else I'll try to fix it somehow, although I'll probably only make it worse.
 
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