New to swords

Mecha said:
Can't do a hamon or a bo hi. :( But I can do a yee-haw! :D

(Edit: actually, fullers are in the works, and I will be able to forge them soon.)
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Cutting the fullers in is actually pretty quick-I've been making cutters out of worn out files for almost two years and they're very satisfying to use-they work kinda like a scraper plane.
 
J W Bensinger said:
Cutting the fullers in is actually pretty quick-I've been making cutters out of worn out files for almost two years and they're very satisfying to use-they work kinda like a scraper plane.
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Roger that, I'll have to give it a try. The stock I have to work with is pretty small, so I would like to forge the fullers in order to spread out the material more and make a slightly "bigger" sword. Gonna modify my tiny table-top forging press with top and bottom fullering dies, to do both sides at once!
 
Lorien said:
talk to Mecha, he could make you a super cool sword that won't break and kill you. Might cost a little more than your budget, but worth every penny.
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He wants a katana Lorien.

There are required attributes in there like.....
habaki,
fuchi/kashira,
saya,
tsuka.....

I like where Mecha is going but OP would be looking at whatever Sam could produce and THEN another $1,500.00 PLUS to get someone to make fittings and furniture and put it all together.

This would be like someone coming into your shop wanting a downhill racer, and some "helpful" person coming up while you are talking to them and really suggesting a fixie.

They are both bicycles, but not in the same realm.

I'll recommend a CAS Raptor to the OP, just like I did to the other newbie.

They have balance, they are designed for cutting, and they are forgivingly through hardened, as well as looking pretty cool.

They retail for about $400.00 delivered.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Mecha said:
Apparently, Bearcut already bought THREE swords!

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1272264-Can-t-find-any-knives-I-want-so
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He will probably injure himself grievously with one of them....and there will be lol'ng in Swordville.

The CAS he got isn't bad at all, but he does run the risk of destroying the blade by cutting "inappropriate" media....his beater has a short blade, but it's cheap, so who cares.

One thing that this "new breed" of collector lacks(as does this generation) is any sense of patience.

To be involved even remotely, with good/great Nihonto, you need to plan well in advance and have quite a bit of patience, or be lucky enough to win a lottery.

I have JSA friends who are close with the fellow that started Cheness.....and they won't use his swords, even when they are gimme's. They give them away

Live and learn, and try not to lose any body parts, is what I say.

The CS bokken is absolute junk....you can bend it with your hand.....makes a nice alternative to the sjambok, though.

You have an awesome sense of humor, Sam.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Kohai999 said:
He wants a katana Lorien.

There are required attributes in there like.....
habaki,
fuchi/kashira,
saya,
tsuka.....

I like where Mecha is going but OP would be looking at whatever Sam could produce and THEN another $1,500.00 PLUS to get someone to make fittings and furniture and put it all together.

This would be like someone coming into your shop wanting a downhill racer, and some "helpful" person coming up while you are talking to them and really suggesting a fixie.

They are both bicycles, but not in the same realm.

I'll recommend a CAS Raptor to the OP, just like I did to the other newbie.

They have balance, they are designed for cutting, and they are forgivingly through hardened, as well as looking pretty cool.

They retail for about $400.00 delivered.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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That is correct, Kohai999. I'm circling like a shark around the goal of making a proper(?) katana of beta ti alloy, and when it happens, of course I would like to send it off to you for a scathing dissection and testing. A chokuto in the works now will have a habaki, so that part will be figured out soon. The blade itself will be a major undertaking, let alone all the accoutrements.
 
I'm not so sure Bearcut won't be just fine, he already speaks of only using the bokken at first. I assume he means the polypropelene one they make, and as an owner of a CS Brooklyn Smasher ball bat, I can tell you, they are most certainly NOT easy to "bend" in any shape or form. I don't own the bokken, but if it's anything like the bat, it'll stand up to tremendous abuse.
Bearcut goes on to state he's purchased two of what most would consider to be "reliable entry level katana", both of which can be reasonably expected- with proper care and caution- to cut traditional targets as well as the occasional water bottle, melon, etc. I'd like that T10 myself, it looks capable.
Bearcut, I'll advise two things, first, watch as many videos on cutting as possible, and study the form and especially the follow through. Practice with that bokken, and you could chalk the edge and use a folded moving blanket to see the results. Optimally, a teacher would be fantastic.
Second, enjoy. Your purchases look perfectly suitable for a beginner, which you are, and if by chance you DO manage to get hurt, I certainly WON'T be laughing, as my scarred hands, veterans of the "Balisong aerial school" will attest. be safe and have fun.
 
kaotikross said:
I'm not so sure Bearcut won't be just fine, he already speaks of only using the bokken at first. I assume he means the polypropelene one they make, and as an owner of a CS Brooklyn Smasher ball bat, I can tell you, they are most certainly NOT easy to "bend" in any shape or form. I don't own the bokken, but if it's anything like the bat, it'll stand up to tremendous abuse.
Bearcut goes on to state he's purchased two of what most would consider to be "reliable entry level katana", both of which can be reasonably expected- with proper care and caution- to cut traditional targets as well as the occasional water bottle, melon, etc. I'd like that T10 myself, it looks capable.
Click to expand...

The polypropylene bokken IS easy to bend....it doesn't take a set, but bokken are supposed to be rigid, and it is most certainly not that. I picked one up years ago, hated it, gave it to my Sensei. He played with it for an hour, and threw it in the trash.

It is a bad solution for a problem that does not exist. If you are going to do things right, do it right.

The baseline for a proper bokken in a "real" JSA is white oak. The Hickory models offered by Kingfisher are simply luxurious. Red Oak is for beginners because instead of denting with impact, it has a tendency to break and splinter...but they are much less expensive. A good white oak bokken from Japan is about $50.00, last I checked.

Cutting is not easy to do as a beginner....sure, the angle and proper cut ARE easy....stopping is hard. I have seen SOOOO many beginners over muscle the cut, and wind up slicing into the mat. At our dojo, if you do that now, you just purchased a new floor mat....they cost $100.00 each.

IF you over cut out in the backyard, you are likely to hit a rock and chip the edge. If it is in the wrong part of the sword, you just introduced a stress that will likely cause catastrophic failure.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
The polypropylene bokken IS easy to bend....it doesn't take a set, but bokken are supposed to be rigid, and it is most certainly not that. I picked one up years ago, hated it, gave it to my Sensei. He played with it for an hour, and threw it in the trash.

It is a bad solution for a problem that does not exist. If you are going to do things right, do it right.

The baseline for a proper bokken in a "real" JSA is white oak. The Hickory models offered by Kingfisher are simply luxurious. Red Oak is for beginners because instead of denting with impact, it has a tendency to break and splinter...but they are much less expensive. A good white oak bokken from Japan is about $50.00, last I checked.

Cutting is not easy to do as a beginner....sure, the angle and proper cut ARE easy....stopping is hard. I have seen SOOOO many beginners over muscle the cut, and wind up slicing into the mat. At our dojo, if you do that now, you just purchased a new floor mat....they cost $100.00 each.

IF you over cut out in the backyard, you are likely to hit a rock and chip the edge. If it is in the wrong part of the sword, you just introduced a stress that will likely cause catastrophic failure.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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As to the polypropylene bokken-all the potential for injury, none of the swordlike qualities of a wooden bokken.
Hard, flat 1/2" polypropylene (couldn't possibly be a cutting board from Wallyworld) makes a decent trainer for Kali/silat bladework, if you make them right-but that's a 14" blade or less.
The sword I broke probably let go at a chip-it was a gunto that had been really ill used (the kissaki was snapped off at the yokote).
Both the bokken I bought when I lived in Osaka in the early '90's are still going strong.
 
kaotikross said:
I'm not so sure Bearcut won't be just fine, he already speaks of only using the bokken at first. I assume he means the polypropelene one they make, and as an owner of a CS Brooklyn Smasher ball bat, I can tell you, they are most certainly NOT easy to "bend" in any shape or form. I don't own the bokken, but if it's anything like the bat, it'll stand up to tremendous abuse.
Bearcut goes on to state he's purchased two of what most would consider to be "reliable entry level katana", both of which can be reasonably expected- with proper care and caution- to cut traditional targets as well as the occasional water bottle, melon, etc. I'd like that T10 myself, it looks capable.
Bearcut, I'll advise two things, first, watch as many videos on cutting as possible, and study the form and especially the follow through. Practice with that bokken, and you could chalk the edge and use a folded moving blanket to see the results. Optimally, a teacher would be fantastic.
Second, enjoy. Your purchases look perfectly suitable for a beginner, which you are, and if by chance you DO manage to get hurt, I certainly WON'T be laughing, as my scarred hands, veterans of the "Balisong aerial school" will attest. be safe and have fun.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I plan on being cautious, watching videos and learning as much as I can.

The two vendors I ordered swords from wrote me to let me know that there were problems with my orders.

The vendor that I bought the "good' katana from told me that the saya had a very small crack at the mouth. I'm sure I can fix that. They offered me a very generous discount, and I took it, since this model is backordered for months. Bonus number one.

Bonus number two was the other vendor that I ordered the 'beater' katana from. I ordered a SlavEdge Standard katana. Their inventory was wrong and it was actually out of stock. They offered me their premier model, the Katsujinken, for no extra charge in its place. Needless to say, I took that offer too!

Sword people are nice.

Well, one sword person isn't nice.

That's why I have him on my Ignore List.:)
 
Kohai999 said:
The polypropylene bokken IS easy to bend....it doesn't take a set, but bokken are supposed to be rigid, and it is most certainly not that. I picked one up years ago, hated it, gave it to my Sensei. He played with it for an hour, and threw it in the trash.

It is a bad solution for a problem that does not exist. If you are going to do things right, do it right.

The baseline for a proper bokken in a "real" JSA is white oak. The Hickory models offered by Kingfisher are simply luxurious. Red Oak is for beginners because instead of denting with impact, it has a tendency to break and splinter...but they are much less expensive. A good white oak bokken from Japan is about $50.00, last I checked.

Cutting is not easy to do as a beginner....sure, the angle and proper cut ARE easy....stopping is hard. I have seen SOOOO many beginners over muscle the cut, and wind up slicing into the mat. At our dojo, if you do that now, you just purchased a new floor mat....they cost $100.00 each.

IF you over cut out in the backyard, you are likely to hit a rock and chip the edge. If it is in the wrong part of the sword, you just introduced a stress that will likely cause catastrophic failure.
Click to expand...

That all makes sense, and i had no idea the CS Bokken was a bad as everyone is saying. i based my opinion upon the smasher bat, which although overly heavy, is also really, reallly durable. My personal bokken is ash, (I'm fairly certain) and while I've never intentionally hit anything truly solid with it, it's performed admirably for the decade or so I've owned it. It's likely Bearcut will see that the CS bokken is not up to par, and get a wooden one, after all, they aren't massively expensive. As to the "over-cut", yup, that's a mistake I'm sure we've ALL made, and the only way to NOT make it is to train, and train on reliable and appropriate materials. I could tell you my "BudK/Shinwa/flea market combat-ready katana vs. the sapling with old jeans tied on it" story, but it's likely most beginners have one, suffice it to say what was left of the blade ground down to a decent-looking wall-hanger tanto, and thank goodness I was nimble enough (barely) to avoid the flying portion. As with any weapon, a large majority of purchasers may buy it and it becomes a "safe queen", but the ONLY way to learn, is to train. As not everyone lives near a Sword School of Renown, or Japan, sometimes the ONLY means of learnign available is the one taken by many of us, books, and now the web, and trial and error.

Side note: Thank you for the heads up on kingfisher, i have two staff-grade dowels on the way, and incredibly cheap. As I grow older it's almost as nice to create a beautiful weapon as it is to use one (almost), and these will make lovely practice Jo for my boys, after sanding and finishing. I was drooling through that entire website. :D
 
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kaotikross said:
That all makes sense, and i had no idea the CS Bokken was a bad as everyone is saying. i based my opinion upon the smasher bat, which although overly heavy, is also really, reallly durable. My personal bokken is ash, (I'm fairly certain) and while I've never intentionally hit anything truly solid with it, it's performed admirably for the decade or so I've owned it. It's likely Bearcut will see that the CS bokken is not up to par, and get a wooden one, after all, they aren't massively expensive. As to the "over-cut", yup, that's a mistake I'm sure we've ALL made, and the only way to NOT make it is to train, and train on reliable and appropriate materials. I could tell you my "BudK/Shinwa/flea market combat-ready katana vs. the sapling with old jeans tied on it" story, but it's likely most beginners have one, suffice it to say what was left of the blade ground down to a decent-looking wall-hanger tanto, and thank goodness I was nimble enough (barely) to avoid the flying portion. As with any weapon, a large majority of purchasers may buy it and it becomes a "safe queen", but the ONLY way to learn, is to train. As not everyone lives near a Sword School of Renown, or Japan, sometimes the ONLY means of learnign available is the one taken by many of us, books, and now the web, and trial and error.

Side note: Thank you for the heads up on kingfisher, i have two staff-grade dowels on the way, and incredibly cheap. As I grow older it's almost as nice to create a beautiful weapon as it is to use one (almost), and these will make lovely practice Jo for my boys, after sanding and finishing. I was drooling through that entire website. :D
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It's funny you mention the sapling-I've had a stainless, $100 marto or art gladius Spanish "katana" that I fixed the tang angle on-that cut A LOT of seriously, tragically stupid stuff over the 20 years I had it (my daughter has it now) and it still hasn't broken. It's bent a couple of times (3" pine back in 1991) but it's held up, which was not my expectation.
It's not a katana by any stretch of the imagination but it's the toughest piece of stainless I've ever seen.
 
kaotikross said:
Side note: Thank you for the heads up on kingfisher, i have two staff-grade dowels on the way, and incredibly cheap. As I grow older it's almost as nice to create a beautiful weapon as it is to use one (almost), and these will make lovely practice Jo for my boys, after sanding and finishing. I was drooling through that entire website. :D
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You are most welcome.

Brad is a good guy and insanely retentive about his craft. The results are always good for the customer.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
bearcut said:
Oh great, now I'm looking at broadswords.

How much is this new hobby going to cost me?
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Even though OP can't see this....can't resist....."an arm and a leg"....bada bum pa!!!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Even though OP can't see this....can't resist....."an arm and a leg"....bada bum pa!!!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Bahaha!

During some basic wushu training, it only took a coupe of nasty knocks with a wooden dao to learn how easily carelessness meant getting hit by my own sword edge... how embarrassing would that be! Would have been deep cuts had it been a real sword.

Get cut more making the damn things than using them.
 
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