New to the field, looking for advice on making blades from files/rasps

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Feb 15, 2007
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I've been reading the posts on this forum for a couple weeks and decided it's time to build a knife for myself. I have some basic tools (files, bench vise, drill press) and got my hands on a pile of old files and farriers rasps. The files and rasps are a little thicker than i want them, and obviously i need to remove the teeth to smooth out the steel. Any guys that have done something like this before, what's the best way to go about it?

Thanks alot
 
1st, Not all files make good blade steel. 2nd, Files are dang hard so they need to be annealed before you start.

As long as you don't care that you don't know what the steel is under all those teeth, what the heck! It's ok to practice on and some files, like Nicholson, are made out of W2. You'll be making a guess as to how to heat treat it without knowing what the steel is for sure.

Here is one I made and some good info in this thread about scrap steel. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4101890#post4101890

I sold this to a fellow worker and he cleaned a dang deer with it....said it held a good edge WHO KNEW!!
 
Stick with Nicholson, or Simmons, and you will have no problems. I prefer Nicholson, but both are excellent for knives. I have fifteen years experience with both. Quench at red orange, temper at 425o, to 465o. They are nearly fool proof.
 
I use files to make knives.
First of all, you need GOOD files.
Many files today, especially those coming from China, are just case hardened iron. Not good at all. The surface is hard, but the metal itself is worth crap.
Good files like Nicholson are made of W1 or W2 steel.
Price is usually indicative. If you get them used, try them on a grinder, grinding the side of the tip down at least 0.05" (1 mm ) and watch the sparks. You may find various references on the internet about spark testing steel. It's not an accurate evaluation method, but can reliably tell between iron and high carbon steel.
Files come in the hardened status. If you want to make a knife by stock removal, using hand files, you need to anneal them. It's mandatory.
I strongly recommend that you anneal them anyway. Files are very hard. If you drop it while grinding, or hit it badly while forging, you can break it.
I forge my knives, but anneal the file beforehand nontheless.
Removing the teeth it's up to you. I leave them for the handle on some forged knives.
To anneal, you need a way to bring the file uniformly at non-magnetic and let it cool down VEEEERY slowly.
How can you achieve such a feat? Well, forget your kitchen fires.
First, they ain't hot enough, second, your mom / wife would get mad at you. Since it's useless anyway, it's not worth it.
You need a forge. WAIT! It doesn't necessarily have to be a huge coal-eating smoke-spitting thing. I started with a micro forge that I still find quite useful for heat treating, and used it in my apartment. It's small, clean, safe and very, very cheap.
You need:
1 soft fire brick (try on glass working catalogs or refractory catalogs).
1 screwdriver, flat, 12" long (at least) or 1 wood gouge, flat, 12" cm long, 1" wide, that you don't mind spoiling.
1 wood rasp or bastard file, half round, 12" long.
10' of iron wire
2 MAPP gas torches.

Use the gouge or screwdriver to slowly drill a hole in the middle of the brick, down its length. Rotate the gouge or screwdriver and work lightly and slowly.
Getting at it with a vengeance will just risk you break it.
Once the hole is there, enlarge it. Leave at least 1/2" of thickness on the sides, and 1" top and bottom. Make an oval cavity, higher than it's wide. Use the half round file to smooth the walls, and you can paint the inside with Satanite or equivalent to make it smoother and avoid flying particles of ceramic, and increment the refractory properties of the brick. Make 2 holes large enough to let the MAPP burner nozzle to pass through. Make them so that they are at a tangent with the cavity, and at an equal distance bewteen them and the forge openings. Hot gases will swirl inside getting a more even heat rather than just blowing straight in.
Make thin indents along the brick and wrap wire around it (not accros the openings, obviously) to make it stronger. With use it will crack. Don't worry, it's normal. The wire will keep everything nicely together.
You may want to have a refractory tablet or another brick to rest the micro-forge upon, as it can get pretty hot on the outside, anyway.
Here you are.
With that, you can heat treat about 1 foot of stock length.
More than enough for most small to medium sized knives.
Light the forge by lighting the MAPP burners and inserting them in the forge. I used clamps to hold them in place by clamping the hose they are attached to to the table. You must devise a way to secure the burners in place.
Put the cans in a container filled with water, or else they will freeze and the pressure will drop.
The water doesn't need to be warm.
Wait till the inside of the forge gets hot, then slowly warm the file with the hot gases exiting the mouth of the forge.
This is to avoid putting a piece of tempered, fragile steel at room temperature in the little inferno you have in the forge.
Heat it till it's at orange heat. Best thing, periodically and frequently check the steel with a magnet: when the magnet doesn't stick, it's ready. Let it soak heat a minute or so more, then slowly turn down the gas, and leave just enough flame to keep the burner lit.
Let the forge cool down with the file in it. The slower the cooling process, the better.
When the forge is no more glowing, or just glowing barely, turn down the burners, extract them and let everything cool down to room temp.
Don't hurry things.
Now the file is annealed and ready for working. In such a forge you can anneal simultaneously 2 or even 3 files. The bigger mass will make the cooling down process slower and better.
 
I am in the process of making a knife out of a Nicholson file. So far it is going well. I built a small forge and used a JTH-7 torch fueled with propane to anneal it. Worked great, just heated the file until non-magnetic then let it cool down in the forge. Softened it right up. I have since used a 6" bench grinder, 6" disc grinder, a 4x36 bench grinder and a dremel tool to profile it. The 4x36 worked great to remove the file teeth.

I'm now working on the edge bevel. The knife is a little 3-finger Wharncliffe.

Have fun with it.

Charles
 
You guys have all been a great help, i really appreciate the feedback. I'll be sure to keep you posted on my progress. And crex, i'm almost dead center in the middle of New Hampshire.

Thanks Again
 
Anyone ever use the ones marked " Sandvik Oberg Portugal" ?

Iv'e got about 4 blades in the works from those things... gets hard as hell when quenched at 1450-1475. Another thing I've noticed is that if you get them just a little too hot when forging, you'll break the steel apart when you hit it, like cracks in dry mud... Anyone have any idea what steel they might be?
 
Sandvik makes some real fine tools.
Strange behavior...
Are you forging in a brightly lit environment? If so, you may be misjudging the heat, and burning the steel.
It seems to me, from the behavior you describe, that the steel may be real high in carbon... maybe > 1.5 ?
 
Ok, i've got the steel annealed (was able to use a propane forge that belongs to a friend of mine), and now it's time to remove some material. I want to take the teeth off. What's the best way to go about this? I've been considering picking up a bench sander, but this is my first knife project and i dont want to drop too much money just yet.
 
Just file them off.
If they have been annealed properly, you should have no problem. Otherwise, some glass block and coarse emery paper are in order.
 
Yeah, I've figured out that I was getting it too hot before I hit it, not to mention hitting it too hard...

I've got about 10 annealed Nicholson bastard half - rounds as well. From the reading I've done here, is it basically safe to say they're W2 steel?
 
I usually use an angle grinder to get the teeth off, they're deeper than they look, filing them out takes hours!

If you're twice blessed and have both flat files, and a surface grinder, it does a real nice job of cleaning them up, not so good for the half rounds though.
 
Here's a small blade made with a 1/4" file and hand tools.



I did use a dewalt grinder to remove the teeth after annealing. However, you really need to be gentle and take long strokes in one direction when grinding off the teeth with an angle grinder, because it's easy to leave a dip in the blade that will take a TON of work to blend out.

You could clamp a belt sander upside down on the work bench to remove the teeth evenly. I've heard it works well for some.

Also, take the advice regarding the annealing process. If you don't properly anneal the steel, you'll run into a hard core. Atleast that's what I've experienced when working with files. That time I think it cooled too fast. Find something to slow down the cooling process, such as sand. The experts here can tell you better methods to slowly cool the steel. (perhaps a search may reveal something.)

Good luck
 
1st, Not all files make good blade steel. 2nd, Files are dang hard so they need to be annealed before you start.

As long as you don't care that you don't know what the steel is under all those teeth, what the heck! It's ok to practice on and some files, like Nicholson, are made out of W2. You'll be making a guess as to how to heat treat it without knowing what the steel is for sure.

Here is one I made and some good info in this thread about scrap steel. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4101890#post4101890

I sold this to a fellow worker and he cleaned a dang deer with it....said it held a good edge WHO KNEW!!


Not sure what steel miller files are made from but it hardens up really nicely. I made my river rat warncliff bladed knife froma miller gunsmith file. Thing takes a razor edge and holds it really nice.

Also to op dont forgetlocal scrap yards for steel supply. They tend to sort things pretty good. Junk yards as well looke for a 1980s car or truck with leaf springs almost all those are 5160 high carbon and make great blades once the spring is annealed and flattened out.
 
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