New to Traditional, Need help with choosing my first

[viper89]

Hey Guys, I'm rather new to this area so go easy on me. I have been wanting to try traditional knives for a while but I want to move in slowly. I am more or a Spyderco/Kershaw/ZT knife guy. I have a Byrd Wings Slipit and I really like the 2 blades in one adding to the versatility of the knife, but what I really want is the traditional because of how it looks and the history with it. I have so many moderns why not an old school?

I have a budget of $40-$90. I am looking for one with a one hand opening [thumb stud/thumb hole/etc], a pocket clip [deep carry?], folding [of course], no real preference for locking or non locking, under 3-4 oz., good materials [handle and steel] and for it to be visually attractive [I know this is subjective but work with me here ].

I know this is asking for a lot, I have been looking around, and I know Case and Great Eastern Cutlery are great names in this area. So now I ask the Experts-ish...recommendations? Pics would be great too so I know what I would be getting

 

[Campbellclanman]

Keep a good eye out in our Traditional slippies for sale.....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/672-The-Knife-Exchange

you can get some absolutely great buys there...I think maybe a Barlow, or possibly an Easy Opner would be a pretty cool knife for you to get to experience a Traditional "feel".

The more straight line approach would be a Stockman, or a two bladed Jack.... our GEC easy Opener with a spear point blade would be a awesome knife for you...they come up only now and then, and go pretty quickly when they do arise...a few bucks over your budget...but way way worth it.
I suggest going to the later part of your budget, Im sure the Case sway back gents knife will come up as well, thats a most popular model.
A good start would be a jigged Bone Handle, and I cant refer you the meatl-thats quite personal...Carbon or Stainless...these days they both have massive attributes.
Good luck, and please keep us posted

 

[jacknife]

I have a budget of $40-$90. I am looking for one with a one hand opening [thumb stud/thumb hole/etc], a pocket clip [deep carry?], folding [of course], no real preference for locking or non locking, under 3-4 oz., good materials [handle and steel] and for it to be visually attractive [I know this is subjective but work with me here

Are you sure you're ready to go traditional? It's a mindset not just a knife.

Good to have you along. You've plenty of patterns to choose from. Perhaps try some Rough Riders till you settle on something you like.

 

[jackknife]

I have to agree with jacknife in that what your asking for is not really in the traditional knife line. Yes, there are some locking traditionals, but one hand opening and pocket clips kind of move it out of the realm of the true traditional.

And traditional is really mind set in a very large part. It's a look back at where we've been and came from, and a ticket back for a visit when we handle a traditional slip joint. Like going to the shooting range with an old muzzle loader or angle action revolver instead of a black rifle or tactical auto vogue handgun.

Theres an old knives thread up in the stickies, maybe browse that to see it there is anything there that pushed some button for you. Those are knives that will give you a good idea of what a real traditional slip joint is.

Carl.

 

[trey999]

Case does have a Trapperlock with a thumbstud and a pocket clip. They are still traditional with some modern features. Might be a gateway into the traditional knife world.

 

[Peregrin]

Some of the stuff we see posted here kind of blurs the lines. According to the guidelines for this subforum;

The "Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades" sub-forum is defined as follows:

Discussion of classic Hunters, Trappers, Lockbacks, Slipjoints, Skinners and other classic "traditional" designs...


We try not to veer too much from that. Thumbstuds, pocket clips and liner locks don't really fit into the definition. As has already been suggested a stroll through the "Old Knives" and maybe the What "Traditional Knife" are ya totin' today? threads might help give you some suggestions also.

Have fun figuring it out!

 

[Voodoosix]

GEC and CSC have linerlock models... but they arent OHOs nor do they have pocket clips,

the Case Russlock is a OHO with linerlock but no pocket clip,

the Case Trapperlock is pretty much a modern knife made by a traditional knife mfr,

the closest thing i can think of that matches the given criteria is the Wenger Ranger w/pocket clip.

 

[DrPenguin]

I have to agree with jackknife in that what your asking for is not really in the traditional knife line. Yes, there are some locking traditionals, but one hand opening and pocket clips kind of move it out of the realm of the true traditional.

And traditional is really mind set in a very large part. It's a look back at where we've been and came from, and a ticket back for a visit when we handle a traditional slip joint. Like going to the shooting range with an old muzzle loader or angle action revolver instead of a black rifle or tactical auto vogue handgun.

Theres an old knives thread up in the sticks, maybe browse that to see it there is anything there that pushed some button for you. Those are knives that will give you a good idea of what a real traditional slip joint is.

Carl.

I don't know Carl.... I might put traditionals in the realm of say a nice old 30-06. A classic tool better suited for the old outdoors than a black ops night mission. But very hard to beat within the realm it was designed for.

Will

 

[pinnah]

I have a budget of $40-$90. I am looking for one with a one hand opening [thumb stud/thumb hole/etc], a pocket clip [deep carry?], folding [of course], no real preference for locking or non locking, under 3-4 oz., good materials [handle and steel] and for it to be visually attractive [I know this is subjective but work with me here ].

Viper, Carl gave some great advice in noting that a mindset shift is required to see the deep value in traditionals. Everybody has their own view on this, but for me, traditionals use designs that have proven their worth over many, many decades. Another aspect of traditionals that I dig is that the knives are handtools, not objects of absolute perfection.

If you insist that a traditional have all of the design characteristics of a modern tactical, you may miss out on experiencing the ways that traditionals have been solving problems for a very long time. You may find that these tradition designs actually work as well or better for you, providing you adjust to new ways of using the knife.

If you want one hand open and one hand close, you might look at traditional locking folders. The Buck 110 is the classic here but really too big be pocket carried. The smaller 112 and thinner 500 are more pocket friendly. Another option is the traditional Opinel, which is a very crude simple knife. Remembering that it's an inexpensive hand tool user, the traditional approach for Opinels is to reshape and refinish the handle to suit your preference. I thin the handles on my mine and sand out an easy open indent. My Bucks and Opinels are both one hand open, one hand close. The action isn't as fast as a "tactical" but I use my knives in working situations, not "tactical" situations, so the extra few micro-seconds are no problem for me.


Folders by Pinnah, on Flickr


In terms of pocket clips, these are really new thing associated with modern knives. Traditionals often have nice rounded bolsters and give the ultimate deep pocket carry. I like traditionals in the sub-4" (folded) range. They're big enough to be useful, small enough to carry easily and big enough that I can reach past them to get change out if I need to. I've come to hate having a knife clipped in my pocket. I prefer the carry of a traditional. I particularly like the carry of flat lock backs like the Buck 500, Buck 501 and (original) Schrade 5OT (not the current knock off).

In terms of steels, remember that traditionals are tools for working men first and foremost. They are expected to be used, dulled and resharpened on a regular basis. Talking about super steels on a traditional, for me, is like talking about Ferrari engines and Ford Mustangs. If you buy a Mustang, there's sort of an expectation that if you're going to get the most from it, your going to work on the engine. If you own a traditional, there is an expectation that you'll be sharpening the blade and steels that take a good edge but that can be resharpened with a minimum of fuss tend to be preferred. Carbon 1095, Case's CV, 420HC stainless, 440C stainless and D2 tool steel are all common traditional steels.

Hope this helps

 

[combatjiujitsu]

Case Sway Back Jack! Only problem is its so perfect you may not by another traditional

 

[jackknife]

I don't know Carl.... I might put traditionals in the realm of say a nice old 30-06. A classic tool better suited for the old outdoors than a black ops night mission. But very hard to beat within the realm it was designed for.

Will

Oh well, if you want to put it like that, yes a nice walnut stocked bolt action '06 would be nice. But...you'd have to have a large trapper pattern to go with that. Kind of like keeping the spirit of the thing intact. But if you had, say, a nice large stockman, then I think of a man on horseback, so a nice flat lever action Winchester would be in order.

Maybe we'd better find out what guns Viper has so we can recommend the right traditional pocket knife?

 

[pertinux]

Oh well, if you want to put it like that, yes a nice walnut stocked bolt action '06 would be nice. But...you'd have to have a large trapper pattern to go with that. Kind of like keeping the spirit of the thing intact. But if you had, say, a nice large stockman, then I think of a man on horseback, so a nice flat lever action Winchester would be in order.

Maybe we'd better find out what guns Viper has so we can recommend the right traditional pocket knife?

And what kind of horse!

Good luck, Viper. You've been given a lot of good advice (with likely more to come), and I look forward to seeing which direction you choose to go. First.

~ P.

 

[DrPenguin]

Good idea Carl... and for the record I do own a walnut and blued 30-06.

Will

 

[Groove]

I've seen Case Russlocks with pocket clips in catalaouges.

 

[black mamba]

Viper, you remind me of the person at the beach who takes 30 minutes to get into the cold water an inch at a time.

Don't dabble, just dive in! Forget one-hand opening and pocket clips. You already have those. Get yourself a stockman or two-blade jack knife in the 3-1/2" to 4" size and see what traditionals are all about.

 

[viper89]

Are you sure you're ready to go traditional? It's a mindset not just a knife.

Good to have you along. You've plenty of patterns to choose from. Perhaps try some Rough Riders till you settle on something you like.

- Indeed it is....

Some of the stuff we see posted here kind of blurs the lines. According to the guidelines for this subforum;

The "Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades" sub-forum is defined as follows:

Discussion of classic Hunters, Trappers, Lockbacks, Slipjoints, Skinners and other classic "traditional" designs...


We try not to veer too much from that. Thumbstuds, pocket clips and liner locks don't really fit into the definition. As has already been suggested a stroll through the "Old Knives" and maybe the What "Traditional Knife" are ya totin' today? threads might help give you some suggestions also.

Have fun figuring it out!

-- I know, I am just thinking that moving in slowly into the traditional...

Viper, Carl gave some great advice in noting that a mindset shift is required to see the deep value in traditionals. Everybody has their own view on this, but for me, traditionals use designs that have proven their worth over many, many decades. Another aspect of traditionals that I dig is that the knives are handtools, not objects of absolute perfection.

If you insist that a traditional have all of the design characteristics of a modern tactical, you may miss out on experiencing the ways that traditionals have been solving problems for a very long time. You may find that these tradition designs actually work as well or better for you, providing you adjust to new ways of using the knife.

If you want one hand open and one hand close, you might look at traditional locking folders. The Buck 110 is the classic here but really too big be pocket carried. The smaller 112 and thinner 500 are more pocket friendly. Another option is the traditional Opinel, which is a very crude simple knife. Remembering that it's an inexpensive hand tool user, the traditional approach for Opinels is to reshape and refinish the handle to suit your preference. I thin the handles on my mine and sand out an easy open indent. My Bucks and Opinels are both one hand open, one hand close. The action isn't as fast as a "tactical" but I use my knives in working situations, not "tactical" situations, so the extra few micro-seconds are no problem for me.


Folders by Pinnah, on Flickr


In terms of pocket clips, these are really new thing associated with modern knives. Traditionals often have nice rounded bolsters and give the ultimate deep pocket carry. I like traditionals in the sub-4" (folded) range. They're big enough to be useful, small enough to carry easily and big enough that I can reach past them to get change out if I need to. I've come to hate having a knife clipped in my pocket. I prefer the carry of a traditional. I particularly like the carry of flat lock backs like the Buck 500, Buck 501 and (original) Schrade 5OT (not the current knock off).

In terms of steels, remember that traditionals are tools for working men first and foremost. They are expected to be used, dulled and resharpened on a regular basis. Talking about super steels on a traditional, for me, is like talking about Ferrari engines and Ford Mustangs. If you buy a Mustang, there's sort of an expectation that if you're going to get the most from it, your going to work on the engine. If you own a traditional, there is an expectation that you'll be sharpening the blade and steels that take a good edge but that can be resharpened with a minimum of fuss tend to be preferred. Carbon 1095, Case's CV, 420HC stainless, 440C stainless and D2 tool steel are all common traditional steels.

Hope this helps

-- That analogy is really good and helps understand it a little more...

Oh well, if you want to put it like that, yes a nice walnut stocked bolt action '06 would be nice. But...you'd have to have a large trapper pattern to go with that. Kind of like keeping the spirit of the thing intact. But if you had, say, a nice large stockman, then I think of a man on horseback, so a nice flat lever action Winchester would be in order.

Maybe we'd better find out what guns Viper has so we can recommend the right traditional pocket knife?

-- Hehe, I own a SA XD and an AR-15, um perhaps guns that are more "tactical" in nature.

Viper, you remind me of the person at the beach who takes 30 minutes to get into the cold water an inch at a time.

Don't dabble, just dive in! Forget one-hand opening and pocket clips. You already have those. Get yourself a stockman or two-blade jack knife in the 3-1/2" to 4" size and see what traditionals are all about.

-- I am indeed that type of person. Always testing the waters first.

You guys have given indeed great advice. I am the type of person that likes to slowly moves into something by exposure in small increments and this has changed a bit, well in terms of this knife. I came in here wanting the knife of my specifications at 90% now I am at 20%. Meaning that I am more open to the knife true to traditions. I was thinking that I could just get a modern traditional knife but now perhaps it is not necessary. Right now, I usually carry a Spyderco Delica, Native, UKPK or Sage 1 as a primary knife accompanied by a secondary like the Squeak, Chicago, or Byrd Tern as a less scary knife. Now I am thinking of adding another knife to the secondary knife rotation perhaps something in this sub-forum . By using this new knife as a secondary, it might be sufficient to be my entry to traditional instead of my original plan of changing the knife. Change the role not the knife.

I wonder how the knife holds up in a coin change pocket or is it just fine? I am still browsing around, looking at some Case knives as they seem to be good entry knives. I must say that I am rather fascinated by the 3 blades in 1 and I was wondering are there specific functions to each or a knife is a knife?

Perhaps I will just jump right in. I shall keep you all posted what I decide. So far I am thinking of the Case American Workman Medium Stockman, Case Gray Bone Medium Stockman, to name a few.

Thanks guys!

 

[MacCairnie]

You won't regret trying traditionals out. I found this forum a couple years ago, and it got me out of my half-straight-edge, half-serration blades quick. Right now I'm carrying an Opinel no. 8, and although I haven't found that perfect knife yet (mostly because I'm in Canada), I'm well-stuck in the traditional mindset. Old knives have given me respect for old ways, old people, and old stories.

Now as for the three-bladed stockmen, their different blades do indeed have different functions. The clip point (long, narrow, and pointy) usually offers the longest cutting edge, and its slim tip makes a decent awl in a pinch. I find this blade makes for a great food blade. I believe that the spay blade, which looks almost rounded at the tip, owes its existence to calf-neutering. See, the calves struggle a good deal, even when they're hog-tied, and you don't want to stab the farmhand or the calf, so you use a blade with a pretty gentle tip. In my area, we use special pliers for the job, but I think they still use a good sharp knife down Texas way. Finally, there's the sheepsfoot blade, which is generally the only truly straight edge on a stockman. I don't know the history behind this one, but I find sheepsfoot blades are just great for starting cuts in tough material like thick plastic packaging. They cut sort of like an exacto knife.

If anyone can correct me or add to this, please do!

 

[dannyp]

You've gotten some good advice here so far. My recommendation would be to get a smaller knife to start out and carry it in the coin pocket like you were thinking along with a modern folder. There are many people here who do this regularly. Make an effort to use only the slip joint and have the other knife there "just in case". I think you will quickly realize the benefits. These include thinly ground blades that make slicing effortless, not having to worry about scaring non-knife people, and slowing down for a few seconds to actually enjoy using the knife.

For a traditionally styled knife with a modern twist on it, you may want to check out Kershaw's Double Cross or Double Duty. I think it's a neat design, but I don't care for thumbstuds myself. If they made a version with nail nicks instead, I'd be all over it.

 

[pinnah]

You've gotten some good advice here so far. My recommendation would be to get a smaller knife to start out and carry it in the coin pocket like you were thinking along with a modern folder.

^^^ THIS! ^^^

I was about to ask what size blade you preferred, since many traditional slip joints are smaller than most tactical blades. But then this post reminded me that I almost always have 2 knives on me. A small people friendly knife in the RFP and a larger locking folder close at hand. I find having the big knife close at hand keeps me calm, allowing me to enjoy a rotating cast of smaller knives. The smaller knives definitely don't scare people as much soni end up using them a lot more often.

Could you move one of your tacticals to a year pocket?

 

[viper89]

You've gotten some good advice here so far. My recommendation would be to get a smaller knife to start out and carry it in the coin pocket like you were thinking along with a modern folder. There are many people here who do this regularly. Make an effort to use only the slip joint and have the other knife there "just in case". I think you will quickly realize the benefits. These include thinly ground blades that make slicing effortless, not having to worry about scaring non-knife people, and slowing down for a few seconds to actually enjoy using the knife.

For a traditionally styled knife with a modern twist on it, you may want to check out Kershaw's Double Cross or Double Duty. I think it's a neat design, but I don't care for thumbstuds myself. If they made a version with nail nicks instead, I'd be all over it.

^^^ THIS! ^^^

I was about to ask what size blade you preferred, since many traditional slip joints are smaller than most tactical blades. But then this post reminded me that I almost always have 2 knives on me. A small people friendly knife in the RFP and a larger locking folder close at hand. I find having the big knife close at hand keeps me calm, allowing me to enjoy a rotating cast of smaller knives. The smaller knives definitely don't scare people as much soni end up using them a lot more often.

Could you move one of your tacticals to a year pocket?

Indeed great advice. Sounds like a good idea guys, I actually will do that. I plan to have a traditional in my right front pocket and a modern folder in my rear right pocket or IWB 2 o'clock especially for the reasons Pinnah and Dannyp pointed out: the calmness, the enjoyment and the people-friendly parts. And my ZT 0560 would be mad if I decreased his rotation time, he is the new guy and wants attention. Thanks for the Kershaw recommendation, but I think I will try out a Case and see how they work out as they seem to be the best entry knife and more traditional, might as well go all out now since I will have a modern folder on me