New to Wicked Edge, need a couple of questions answered.

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Kiba64

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Jun 20, 2013
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Well I'm a bit new to the forum so go easy on me haha but here goes. Got a Wicked Edge after much deliberation to find the right system for sharpening and received it the other week. I have all the latest upgrades for the system and my stones range from 100-1000 for the diamonds (1200/1600 ceramics are on the way) and I have the balsa wood strops with 5/3.5 micron paste and leather strops with 1/.5 micron paste. So, on to the questions, after sharpening a few kitchen knives only going up to 1000 grit and no stropping with decent results (somewhat hair shaving, decent paper cutting) I decided to sharpen a pocket knife for a friend, mind you I'm doing this to break in the stones. So after progressing through each grit 100-1000 and raising a burr on each side for every grit, I take it out without stropping and test it out. While somewhat rough it does shave hair, but trying to cut paper(such as phone book) forget about it, I've gone back through with the 800/1000 grit raising a burr on each side once again for both grits, and still have the same results. Mind you this is some cheap Winchester lockback so the steel is iffy at best. So my questions are: Do I just need to breaking the stones more? Or is it the cheaper end steel's fault? An additional question would be how long does it typically take for these WE stones to break in?
Any and all comments are much appreciated!
 
On your last couple passes with each stone go slightly and only away from the edge. sounds like your not cleaning up the burr very well. 1k will only do so much as well.
 
At 1000 grit the edge should be VERY sharp. As in screaming sharp. Make sure you are not pushing too hard with the stone. Just light strokes will do it, lighter force the higher in grit you go. The same with stropping, light and easy. Also just to note, when I first got the wicked edge the stones didn't need much breaking in. Just a couple higher spots on the low grits. But the high grits were ready to go right off the bat.

The way I do it, is to go "up and away" from the edge on every stroke. Until a burr is raised. Then when I switch sides, the first stroke is a very light down stroke. To knock off the burr, then I continue to go up and away from the edge. 1000 grit is plenty to get a very sharp edge. The ceramics and then paste/strops refine it and smooth it out. But 1000 is still extremely sharp if done correctly. Good luck! It does take a little getting used to the motions of it
 
Alright thanks for the advice I will try and implement it tonight trying some more kitchen knives and eventually getting back to the Winchester folder to try and clean up the edge a bit better, will update this thread sometime afterward on my progress.
 
i have found the angle of your knife is verry important.the use it is to do.the type of steal as well.your sharpening.cutting paper is verry simple.cardboard and others thicker harder.im a deer hunter in australia.im new to the site too.skinning blades with flat grinds made of hi carbon steal are best .easy to resharpen in the field.with all my knifes german.usa .uk.i have found the hi carbon is the best.and the angle is important.
 
I agree, angle matters a great deal, that's exactly one of the reasons why I got the Wicked Edge, it gives you great control over the angle you desire(along with the help of an angle gauge). I've been setting all the knives to 40 degrees inclusive to keep it simple(40 is good for kitchen knives I hear and the Winchester folder is one of my experiments for the moment so I'm keeping it at 40 as well). Thanks for the input!
 
So, after going at it with my Wicked Edge again, I am still at a lose. I did a kitchen knife from 100-1000 grit trying to raise a burr each grit by incorporating the "up and away" technique and making sure I was keeping only the lightest of pressure, after I finish again I was disappointed to find that shaving hair was still relatively rough and cutting paper was very tough if not impossible, so I went back to the experimental Winchester folder and only went through the 800/1000 grit stones again trying to raise a burr on each side with each grit also incorporating the aforementioned techniques suggested. Still to my dismay, the knife seems sharp but like the kitchen knife, it only roughly shaves hair and when trying to slash through paper only rips it as if its still too dull to grab and slice it, I would not be so distressed had not been inclined to think that 1000 grit can easily shave hair and slice through a simple piece of copier paper, which is what I keep hearing so something is still off and I would like to find out what before I progress any further in the sharpening process, I mean, if I can't get it to the sharpness it needs to be now, I'm sure I won't get the expected results I want on the higher grits either. So again, any advice is appreciated and if you need any additional information to help let me know and I'll give it to ya, because in the name of everything sharp I will get this thing down haha
 
Don't try and create a burr at each level... you only need to do it once, (if at all), to insure you've reached the edge. From that point, you're just cleaning up and refining the edge. It sounds like you're ending up with an edge that still has a burr or wire edge. Creating a burr at each grit level is counter productive.

You might also take a look at this page... http://wickededgeusa.com/index.php?...-whats-going-wrong&catid=31:general&Itemid=46 ... there might be some tips that'll help.
 
cbwx34 said:
Don't try and create a burr at each level
Click to expand...

This. Once you've seen the burr on both sides at a low grit, you know you've reached the apex. It's not the steel's fault, and your angle is fine. Read through the stickies on sharpening, and work on the fundamentals. For a little motivation, here's a video of me sharpening a knife to slice newsprint. It is made of cheap steel from tractor supply co that isn't even heat treated, and I sharpen it on the bottom of a coffee cup ;)

[video=youtube;T-5T0kzTiRg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-5T0kzTiRg[/video]
 
Quick update, got my hands on another kitchen knife and went at the Winchester folder, did not draw a burr each time for every grit as suggested and only drew it at the 100 grit, and by 1000 I saw much better results for both knives with both shaving hair much cleaner and actually slicing through paper, and I just received my 1200/1600 ceramics so I will start incorporating those along with my strop sets with the micron pastes and see what I can do. Will update sometime later once I get some more knives done or if I have any more questions.
 
If you have the new ball joint arms, the rods are a little bigger. However if you have the old arms, they are small enough to create some play when the stones are inserted on them. This creates a fraction of a degree of play. The solution to this it to tilt the stones (while they are on the arms) toward the knife. Just put that slight inward pressure on every stroke and that should help some too. Enjoy your Wicked Edge buddy!
 
I'm going to chime in although you already absorbed the advice : don't raise a burr at each grit. It's a waste of steel. It was good practice once but its not needed. I personally only use up and away strokes so as to keep the scratch pattern uniform. Make sure you have your angles set - this is the longest process and the one that is the most important. You can raise a burr but if you're only hitting the very edge you aren't really putting in the cutting geometry.

You may have to spend some time on those lower grits to really make sure that you're seeing the scratch pattern across the entire bevel from the shoulder that you want to the very edge. Then go up a grit and raise that burr. Then just polish, polish, polish. Light strokes.

Make sure you clean off your knife before you strop or you'll strop a lot of dust onto the paste.
 
Personally I think 40 deg inclusive is too obtuse for most knives. I've seen splitting axes with 35 deg inclusive. Try 25 degrees inclusive and watch those arm hairs jump off in fright, before they've even been touched.
 
Thanks to all those who have been giving their input, but I have come across some more instances that need to be resolved, one and the biggest problem of all is the edge depth(that's the only way I can describe it) for instance, I'm trying to sharpen a cheap knife(still trying to practice before I go and screw up one of my "babies" haha) so while on the left side it's hitting the edge all the way down but on the right it hits way below the edge to the point that the left side looks normal and the upper part of the right side almost looks like a Scandi grind because the edge is so deep, and I'm still not even at the top of the edge yet! And while not on the same scale as that (that being a cheap fixed blade) I encountered the same problem on a pocket knife I was doing having to grind on the thing forever on the right side before it made it to the top of the edge and there again the right side of the edge was much deeper than the left so while the Apex of the edge is at a uniform inclusive bevel, the edge looks very uneven between the normal small looking left side and the 3x as deep right side. This really bothers me and any help is appreciated. My other question is this, when setting my bevel angle I find that when I switch between stones and measure it again with my angle cube the angle changes by at most .40 degrees off, and it has been doing this consistently to which I try and remedy it by readjusting the bevel back to where I want it after each changing of stones, is this normal and should I be readjusting it every stone change or just leave it alone completely after the initial angle check? Once again thanks for your comments and help, it is much appreciated.
 
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The thicker the knife, the more your right angle will be off. This is because only the right side of the vise moves. With the older arms you can't fine tune them, newer ones you can. I would recommend using a marker to mark the edge, and if the right side is hitting too low try raising the arm by one degree and repeat until it's as close as you can get it. Use a 1000 grit to check contact with the markered blade. Hope this helps.
 
I see what you mean, that being said, would it not make the inclusive bevel uneven then having, for example, 18 on the left while having to raise it to 20 on the other side just so it will hit the edge? Or could you grind the edge back down to 18 once you've reached the edge and start taking off steel. I do have the new arms by the way.
 
So I did not get much time to fiddle with the knife tonight, but I did try and test to see how far up I needed to take the angle on the right side to stop hitting the shoulder of the blade (which already looks like a Scandi grind now lol) and start only hitting the edge, like I suspected, I had to take the right side close to 25 degrees on the right side while the left is still at 18. So I will ask again, is there anyway to fix this and have it to where I can have 18 on the left and 18 on the right without digging my stones any deeper into and below the shoulder of the right side of the edge? Because if I cut the angle on the right anymore acute my stones begin to grind under the edge again. By the way I'm not apposed to anyone contacting Clay about this thread haha, as always thanks for your time and advice it is much appreciated.
 
If you're setting your angles with an angle gauge, the thickness or offset of the blade doesn't matter... you're automatically adjusting for that.

The first thing to check is to insure the blade is properly clamped. If it's a FFG, make sure it's not angled to one side...it should be vertical in the clamp.

Assuming the blade is clamped properly, it probably means the blade is ground asymmetrically (a common problem, especially on a "cheap" knife). You can often see it by looking down at the tip from the spine side, and at the heel from the edge side. To correct this, you'll need to sharpen the 18 deg. side more, to bring the edge back to center. Depending on the knife, and the time I have, I'll sometimes "split the difference", for example if one side is 18 and the other side 24, I'll do both sides at 21 deg. This will quickly center the blade, and from that point, I can reprofile or do what I want. Continuing to sharpen the 25 deg. side until you reach the edge, with a noticably wider bevel, is only going to make the issue worse. You need to work the opposite side.

To answer your other question, the difference you're seeing in angles between stones shouldn't be an issue (it's probably the tolerance of the gauge). You can mark the edge between stones and check, you should find the mark is being removed.

Here's a video where Clay shows correcting an asymmetric grind on the Wicked Edge...

[video=youtube;ixzRZGSLaIw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixzRZGSLaIw[/video]

Hope this helps!
 
Kiba64 said:
So I did not get much time to fiddle with the knife tonight, but I did try and test to see how far up I needed to take the angle on the right side to stop hitting the shoulder of the blade (which already looks like a Scandi grind now lol) and start only hitting the edge, like I suspected, I had to take the right side close to 25 degrees on the right side while the left is still at 18. So I will ask again, is there anyway to fix this and have it to where I can have 18 on the left and 18 on the right without digging my stones any deeper into and below the shoulder of the right side of the edge? Because if I cut the angle on the right anymore acute my stones begin to grind under the edge again. By the way I'm not apposed to anyone contacting Clay about this thread haha, as always thanks for your time and advice it is much appreciated.
Click to expand...

You don't want to hit the shoulder or the edge, you want to hit right in the middle of the grind. You should defiantly get an angle cube.
 
I would also highly recommend getting a magnifier, or a jeweler's loupe. I don't aim to raise a burr any more. I examine the edge with a 15x loupe using the "sharpie trick". When you hit the apex of the edge, you'll be able to see it and feel it. Much more reliable than waiting on a burr to forum.

One other thing - if you raise a burr, it might not be uniform along the entire edge. You need to aim for hitting the apex along the entire edge.

Good luck! It sounds like you are doing the right thing - getting started with a few cheaper knives to learn the ropes about the WEPS. It took me four or five knives until I felt comfortable clamping up some of my better blades. You'll get the hang of it very soon!

TedP
 
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