New Toys!!! and questions about making tongs.

J.McDonald Knives

J.McDonald Knives

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i just bought some new welding gloves and work gloves, welding apron, 3 piece welding vise grips http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_13213_13213, new handles for my 4lb sledge and 1lb cross peen, 3lb cross peen ($4!!!!), thermometer for quench oil, 5 more 4" cutoff disks, and some vermaculite. had never been in northern tools before but i was like a kid in a candy store. i wanted everything!!!!! :D:D all in all i spent about $80 today. i think i came out good in the long run. between northern tools and harbor freight i got almost everything i needed today. broke in the new 3lb cross peen working on a pair of tongs out of 3/8" rebar. also realized tonight i need to refil my tank so i can forge some more. i saw at northern tools they have 100lb tanks for $114 empty. i wish i could have bought that today. guess i need to talk to santa.

i have a few questions about forging your own tongs. what is the basic style and dimensions needed for knife making? air cool or quench in water? taper the tips to get under the metal while it is in the forge? whats a good grip to put onto your hammers ontop of the wood? if someone can answer those questions it would be much appreciated. ill post pics of my tongs once they are finished.
 
You want a pair of box tongs for holding blades. Several pairs really, for different size stock. I've just got one pair of box tongs atm and need to make more. Your tongs are going to get pretty damn hot (always remember, the first rule of blacksmithing is hot metal looks like cold metal) there's no point doing anything with your tongs, you'll just be dipping them in watter to cool them off anyways.

As for hammer grip. Wood is the best grip you can get, just shape the wood properly with a sander so it wont slip, and you cant really do much better. You dont want any sort of rubber or tape or anything, that will just tear your hand up.
 
well i like to wear a work glove on my hammer hand incase hot sparks come off. i got a blister on my finger from that. the other hand has a welding glove on it.

the tongs, i was thinking about a type of flat bit/pickup tongs combined into one. what im doing is just hammering the end flat. i was looking online at some of the tongs http://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/ and was trying to find something with the same type jaws as im making. i was doing them one way without looking at actual tongs and now that i saw them im going to go about it a different way. i just need a pair of tongs for now that i can use to pick up a 3/8"x2.25"x10"-12" piece of leaf spring out of the forge and be able to use the tongs later for when im heat treating in my forge. thats why i was asking if i should flatten the tip of the jaws a good bit so that i can get it under the metal or should i just make the jaws normally and set a small chunk of firebrick in the forge to lift up the end of the metal. i cant really find a good pic of box tongs to really know what they look like to try and imitate them. anyone have a good closeup pic?
 
www.gstongs.com
These seem to be very well made and reasonably priced. You can order some or use the pictures to forge your own.
I've found that 1" x 1/2" stock is better than rebar to forge tongs.

Also, make sure the surfaces of your hammer are correctly dressed.
Normally hammers come with flat striking surface and sharp corners. This will make much more difficult to move steel and very, very easy to mar the piece if you hit the steel not perfectly square down.
So, use the grinder to round off the corners of the head and give it a gently domed surface.
Do the same on the cross peen, rounding off the side corners.
You may also grind down the side corners and top face of the cross peen (taking care not to modify the striking surface at all) to lighten the hammer on that side. A hammer somewhat unbalanced towards the flat striking surface makes it easier to lay flat blows.
Use 40 grit belt to shape it, and then polish to 600 grit.
NEVER use your forging hammers to hammer on cold steel or to hot cut steel.
 
Try home depot on the propane tanks. 100 lb tank was $89. and you don't have shipping cost. That was in CT. but the price might be the same down by you. Good luck!!!
 
I find rebar not to make good tongs. I suggest getting some 3/8 and 1/2 round (or square) stock at Home Depot to make those pick up tongs.It is quite inexpensive. There are a lot of tong tutorials around, but here is a quick guide.
For pick up tongs it is nice to make two sizes.One at 20-24" for moving metal in and out of the forge.The other about 14-16" for moving hot metal around outside the forge.Start with making the bigger ones. First forge out the joints and drill them.Then bend the angles in the arms, using a bolt as a temporary rivet to check alignment. Make sure to bend the final 1.5" of the arms at a 90 degree bend (a sharp curve is good,even a slight hook,so they will hang on the edge of a table). This makes them easier to pick up and hold on to,as well as helps them cool faster.Next, shape the jaws. For pick up tongs I like a tapered round upper jaw and a slightly wider tapered flat lower jaw. It gets a good grip.Filing a few serrations on the flat jaw faces is a nice touch. Last thing is to pein the rivet. Even though the metal is mild steel, don't quench it. You will be sticking it in the forge and in buckets of water all the time anyway.Dont make the jaws too thin (they aren't pliers). Start with the jaws being a bit heavy and thick. After you use them a bit you can file or grind the jaws down a little more if they are too clunky. Thin metal bens too easy when it is hot.
Stacy.
 
Another tong style that works well, is a bolt pattern tong. get/make a pair to hold 3/4" bolts, heat them up, place a piece of 1/4(or 3/16) by 1 1/2 in the jaws, and hammer them so that they will hold your knife stock on edge.

With your hammer handle, shape it to fit your hand, and thin down the neck. this will both reduce shock transmitted to your hand, and spread it across your entire hand, not just two or three spots. it will go a long way to preventing joint problems, and allow you to work longer without tiring. I do not wear gloves on my hammer hand, It is too easy to have the hammer twist or slip. Most smiths I have talked with lose accuracy when wearing a glove.

One more note about hammering. I was taught that when you are hammering a person behind you should be able to pull the hammer right from your hand. Keep a loose grip on your hammer. again, it is to reduce fatigue and joint damage. you should essentially throw the hammer at the anvil and guide it. Grippint the hammer tight will show off your muscles,and may impress the ladies, but you will tire out much faster, and the damage to your wrist and elbow will add up.

Ken
 
thanks for the tips guys. ill just use the rebar to practice with. ill run by the wannabe mini home depot in town and pick up some new stock. the surface of my hammers is already slightly rounded with the edges and corners rounded off. also i was curious if out of that 3 piece vise grip set i got if i will ever use that one with the funky jaws. i already know im going to use the one with the flt jaws for holding steel so i dont put any teeth marks in the metal. i just realized this morning that i dont need box jaws but just pickup/farrier style tongs. basically flat jaws that arent open. if i decide to use a rivet instead of a bolt how would i go about making a rivet? can i take a bolt and grind off the threads and then heat it up and use it as a rivet? i know how to do the rivet i just need to know what i can use for one. also do you think i should put a washer between each piece or just leave it as metal to metal. thanks again guy.
 
Its great that you are building your own tools. You will definitely learn some valuable lessons, develop and refine skills.

However, consider harbor freight for the 4" cutoff wheels- they regulary have them on sale 4.99-6.99 for a 10pack -I hate to see people spend$ on one or two of something that I run through very fast. I have noticed no difference in the lifetime/ cutting performance of the HF cutoffs compared to DeWalt, ACE, etc.
 
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