New Umnumzaan Without Lockbar Stop - Where To Get?

i just ordered one without the lbs from rainier arms, they said they haven't received their new shippement that has the lbs. your welcome.
 
I just ordered a Zaan from a vendor. Not sure if it has LBS or not. I own and Love Hinderers and they obviously have them, I think it is just the change. You;ll get used to it and after awhile see that on a hard(er) use knife ,it is a good thing.
 
rubiconss said:
I just ordered a Zaan from a vendor. Not sure if it has LBS or not. I own and Love Hinderers and they obviously have them, I think it is just the change. You;ll get used to it and after awhile see that on a hard(er) use knife ,it is a good thing.
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I'd feel better about the new LBS if:
  • If it was actually a lockbar stabilizer like it is on the Hinderer and not just a stop
  • If it was titanium like the rest of the lockbar
  • If it was secured via a bolt and not press fit in - especially SS into a Ti lockbar
  • If it was intended as an improvement to the design and function of the knife, and not to address a warranty problem with customers who intentionally over-extend the lockbar to lessen the tension
  • If the same thought went into the design and esthetics as went into all the other intentional features of all CRK knives
 
LightGuy said:
I'd feel better about the new LBS if:
  • If it was actually a lockbar stabilizer like it is on the Hinderer and not just a stop
  • If it was titanium like the rest of the lockbar
  • If it was secured via a bolt and not press fit in - especially SS into a Ti lockbar
  • If it was intended as an improvement to the design and function of the knife, and not to address a warranty problem with customers who intentionally over-extend the lockbar to lessen the tension
  • If the same thought went into the design and esthetics as went into all the other intentional features of all CRK knives
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+1 couldn't agree more :thumbup:
 
That is ashame, For a line of knives so revered for both aesthetics as well as functionality. I assumed there must have been some failure issue to change the design. I will be receiving mine within a day or so and will report back on whether it had the LBS. If it does not, I will certainly PM the contact info of the vendor to anyone who is interested as I do not believe they are a member of BF.
I have several knives with Hinderer style LBS's so I will take a close look at the design.
 
There was an explanatory post from CRK a while back...basically, for lack of a better term, the overstop device is the result of "user failure" rather than design failure. Apparently a small number of owners feel they can bend the lockbar to "adjust" the lockup action and in doing so damage the knife. They then return it to CRK on a warranty claim, and CRK is put in a position of having to either confront the owner and deny warranty coverage or spend time and money fixing damage that shouldn't be covered by the warranty.


rubiconss said:
That is ashame, For a line of knives so revered for both aesthetics as well as functionality. I assumed there must have been some failure issue to change the design. I will be receiving mine within a day or so and will report back on whether it had the LBS. If it does not, I will certainly PM the contact info of the vendor to anyone who is interested as I do not believe they are a member of BF.
I have several knives with Hinderer style LBS's so I will take a close look at the design.
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JNewell said:
There was an explanatory post from CRK a while back...basically, for lack of a better term, the overstop device is the result of "user failure" rather than design failure. Apparently a small number of owners feel they can bend the lockbar to "adjust" the lockup action and in doing so damage the knife. They then return it to CRK on a warranty claim, and CRK is put in a position of having to either confront the owner and deny warranty coverage or spend time and money fixing damage that shouldn't be covered by the warranty.
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That is a shame indeed, I genuinely think that is a bummer for CRK as well as the loyal CRK collector/user base. To think that a 20+year old design has to be altered because of twiddlers.
I have several types of knives with LBS's but none are particularly "attractive" .

I have sent an email to the vendor I purchased my Umnumzaan from inquiring about his inventory/availability and will report back when I get a response.

Update: They called me back, it has the LBS. Sorry, I will keep looking.
 
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Not sure about the 20 years :) The Umnu is only five years old, give or take a bit. Personally, I'd probably go crazy if I were in a business like this, so I'm pretty sympathetic, even if I'm happier without it personally. Should be a fairly good stream of pre-owned Umnus in the for sale posts? Sent you a PM on a possible vendor.

rubiconss said:
That is a shame indeed, I genuinely think that is a bummer for CRK as well as the loyal CRK collector/user base. To think that a 20+year old design has to be altered because of twiddlers.
I have several types of knives with LBS's but none are particularly "attractive" .

I have sent an email to the vendor I purchased my Umnumzaan from inquiring about his inventory/availability and will report back when I get a response.

Update: They called me back, it has the LBS. Sorry, I will keep looking.
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JNewell said:
Not sure about the 20 years :) The Umnu is only five years old, give or take a bit. Personally, I'd probably go crazy if I were in a business like this, so I'm pretty sympathetic, even if I'm happier without it personally. Should be a fairly good stream of pre-owned Umnus in the for sale posts? Sent you a PM on a possible vendor.
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I didn't know, I thought the LBS was going on all CRK's including the Sebenza, the integral lockbar design being 21 years old.
I dunno. I'm new to CRK.
Got your PM, thanks JN:thumbup:
 
No, and I thought that was interesting. CRK was very clear that they were NOT going to change the Sebenza. I wondered what it is about the Umnu that leads to these issues, where the Sebenza does not. Not sure why...but the Seb is not headed for the LBS. :thumbup:

Just to encourage you, I had an early Umnu and wasn't thrilled - it moved on. Tried one of the newer ones (just a month or so pre-LBS) and it was like a different knife. I highly recommend this knife - you will enjoy it a lot.

rubiconss said:
I didn't know, I thought the LBS was going on all CRK's including the Sebenza, the integral lockbar design being 21 years old.
I dunno. I'm new to CRK.
Got your PM, thanks JN:thumbup:
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as a relatively objective observer (due to my new interest in CRKs) I have noticed more of a "collecting" vibe relative to the Sebenza and more harduse types buying the Umnumzaan. This is not to say that some folks don't use their Sebenzas BUT it seems if a knife were going to be challenged, used, abused - it's the Zaan.
That coupled with, the Zaan is viewed as the "next" step in the iteration of the Sebenza.
 
I am pretty sure it is the lack of a cutout on the Zaan making it more difficult to unlock that caused a lot of folks to try and loosen the tension. There seems to be a little more of a learning curve with operating the Zaan because of the different design on the handle. The slight extension to the "thumb grab" the made this past year or so did help though. I even found it a little challenging at first until I read about the proper technique on here from Chris or Anne. I just think more education was the answer vs. the design change. Maybe a small, brief instructional card included in the box or something..
 
I found a brand new Born on August 15, 2011 S30V Umnumzaan from a relatively obscure internet dealer using Google just last week and wasted ZERO time snatching it up. To me, a 2011 model, S30V Umnumzaan is the best Umnu Chris has ever manufactured. I now have one again! I had a situation a while back where I had to trade my last one away for a much harder knife to find. It was a mistake in the end but I got a brand new one back and I'm a happy camper. And since this was his last one of this configuration and it can't be deal spotting, I'll plug Lee Beane and say it came from Lee's Cutlery. Thanks for a seamless transaftion, Lee ;) This Zaan is never going to leave me. That's a promise.
 
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Reeek said:
I found a brand new Born on August 15, 2011 S30V Umnumzaan from a relatively obscure internet dealer using Google just last week and wasted ZERO time snatching it up. To me, a 2011 model, S30V Umnumzaan is the best Umnu Chris has ever manufactured. I now have one again! I had a situation a while back where I had to trade my last one away for a much harder knife to find. It was a mistake in the end but I got a brand new one back and I'm a happy camper. And since this was his last one of this condiguration and it can't be deal spotting, I'll plug Lee Beane and say it came from Lee's Cutlery. Thanks for a seamless transaftion, Lee ;) Thus Zaan is never going to leave me. That's a promise.
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Geeeeez...why did you do that to me! I stopped the movie I was watching and was on the edge of my seat reading your post. I thought you were giving us a source!
 
LightGuy said:
I am pretty sure it is the lack of a cutout on the Zaan making it more difficult to unlock that caused a lot of folks to try and loosen the tension. There seems to be a little more of a learning curve with operating the Zaan because of the different design on the handle. The slight extension to the "thumb grab" the made this past year or so did help though. I even found it a little challenging at first until I read about the proper technique on here from Chris or Anne. I just think more education was the answer vs. the design change. Maybe a small, brief instructional card included in the box or something..
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You could well be right, but why wouldn't the Regular version of the Sebenza have had the same issues...they're very similar.
 
JNewell said:
You could well be right, but why wouldn't the Regular version of the Sebenza have had the same issues...they're very similar.
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Good question...very unfortunately for me, I've never owned or even handled a regular so I don't know how easy the lock is to disengage compared to the Zaan. Or, if the regular operates in a fashion more typical to frame locks compared to the Zaan. The Zaan truly is unique in my opinion, and seems to have its own learning curve. There certainly are plenty of threads from new Zaan owners asking about the lockbar stiffness, but I haven't seen any similar threads about the regular.

But maybe someone who has both a Zaan and a regular can weigh in?
 
LightGuy said:
Good question...very unfortunately for me, I've never owned or even handled a regular so I don't know how easy the lock is to disengage compared to the Zaan. Or, if the regular operates in a fashion more typical to frame locks compared to the Zaan. The Zaan truly is unique in my opinion, and seems to have its own learning curve. There certainly are plenty of threads from new Zaan owners asking about the lockbar stiffness, but I haven't seen any similar threads about the regular.

But maybe someone who has both a Zaan and a regular can weigh in?
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I have several Large Regular Sebenzas and for me, the large Regular Opens, Closes, Disengages 100% easier than the Umnumzaam. Every Regular I have ever had has been super smooth and hydraulic feeling. The only issue ( if you can call it that ) is a somewhat stick lockbar on some of em. Putting some graphite from a pencil solves that problem easily..... I for one would happily own a 100 Regular Sebenzas to a single 21 sebenza. Thats how much I prefer the Regular to the 21.

I am comparing the Large Regular Sebenza to the Original Umnumzaan Design before they added the higher lockbar release. I only ever had the Star-Tac with the upgraded features, but I sold it because of the sharp ridges in the design causing finger soreness when in use. That is discussed in another thread. I will also say the regular sebenza is just a tad harder to disengage than the classic/21 due to the lesser lockbar release opening. But for me, the more robust feel, better blade profile, and just overall comfort as the whole handle is contoured will Always make it a hands down winner to the 21.

Here is a good pic. of the changes to the Umnumzaan lockbar opening/lockbar.
umnumzaan7.jpg


Here is a pic of some of my Large Regulars so you can see the opening.

CRK-LargeSebenzaGraphic.jpg
 
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