New US Ban on Sale of Elephant Ivory

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Robert Mitchell, an attorney from Pennsylvania, attended the Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking meeting held yesterday, March 20, 2014. Rob delivered Knife Rights's statement (Click to read) to the Council. He reports below on the meeting's low and high points. For an opening salvo, to make a statement and get opposition to the ivory ban on the record, this showing was a success. However, it was just that, an opening salvo. We are in for a long, hard fight, but opposition to these draconion and uunlawful actions is growing and getting organized. Your support is opposing this ban will be key to getting Congress on board against these draconion measures that only penalize honest Americans and do nothing to save elephants.
Before I hit the road, I want to share with you what happened yesterday at the subject meeting. I'll provide more details when I get back, but here are the high points:
[h=2]The Bad News[/h]
  1. Special interest groups are already lobbying Congress to rush changes to the law that will create SEVERE penalties for anyone involved with wildlife trafficking, which will include Domestic Ivory Trade under current proposals. They want to make trading ivory punishable under RICO, Federal Money Laundering statutes, and the Travel Act. These statutes would make violations of the law easier for federal authorities to prove, and the Advisory Council is arguing for increasing penalties to felonies with 5 year prison sentences. They are also pursuing new restitution laws that will allow the government to "disgorge profits from ivory traders" and "return the money to the state or country of origin." Where no state or country can be identified, they want to create a new slush fund to use to enhance enforcement and conservation efforts.
  2. They are working hard to build Congressional support to push these changes through. Sen Diane Feinstein is leading the charge in the Senate. They are looking for a member of the House to lead the effort. When talking to Congressional members, they are focusing on capturing Chinese kingpins in the poached ivory trade, so members of Congress have no idea that these laws could be used against US citizens who currently and have always abided by the law working with pre-ban ivory.
  3. Although they say their focus is on "5 or 7 Kingpins in China", they repeatedly said the United States needs to lead the way with enforcement of a Domestic Ivory Ban to be a model for the rest of the world to emulate. They know the real problems with illicit trade in poached ivory are in Asia, but they are frustrated by their inability to do much about it in foreign countries. They expressed dismay over what they characterized in the United States as the lowest number of prosecutions in wildlife trafficking in the world, and concern that typical US prison sentences were only 2 months of incarceration. The enforcement advocates clearly want more money and manpower to prosecute many more people in the US to drive up their statistics to "impress other countries." Since there is no poaching taking place in the US and USFWS has been effective at keeping poached ivory out of our country, who do you think they will go after?
  4. The Advisory Council is advocating for measures to reduce demand for ivory worldwide and "change people's behavior" through advertising campaigns and enlisting Hollywood celebrities. They compared what is currently legal ivory trade to smoking and illegal drug trades (repeatedly).
  5. The Advisory Council is also advocating for public/private partnerships with corporations and non-governmental organizations to help inform them what can be done to fight wildlife trafficking, which would include domestic ivory trade if they get their way. They talked about eBay, Coke, Pepsi and other companies that they'd like to see help them. AT NO TIME DID THEY TALK ABOUT PARTNERING WITH ANYONE WHO DEALS WITH LEGAL IVORY IN THE US, AND IT IS CLEAR THEY HAVE MADE NO EFFORT TO REACH OUT TO LEGAL USERS OF IVORY TO SOLICIT THEIR INPUT.
[h=2]The Good News[/h]
  1. The Advisory Council was largely ignorant about the legal use of domestic ivory, and they expressed surprise and concern about the number of people who wrote in expressing concern leading up to this meeting. Clearly, they see serious potential political problems if the legal ivory trade organizes to oppose this ban. I challenged them directly on their failure to include people who deal with legal ivory in their deliberations and proposals
  2. There were about 25 people who came out to comment about the Ivory Ban, and about half spoke eloquently about reasons to oppose or soften the ban. Representatives of musical instrument dealers, orchestras, auctioneers, antique collectors, knife dealers and scrimshaw artists stood up and told the Council the Draconian impact that the ban would have on their lives without saving a single African elephant. The Council was clearly attentive and concerned about their comments. There were also animal rights activists who made comments, some of which were quite extreme (i.e. elephants are "more evolved than humans" and "all ivory comes from poached elephants"). The Activist's comments spoke for themselves and added nothing new to the discussion.
  3. Scrimshaw Artist Sandra Brady's comments stood out from the others. Sandra captured how the current legal system has failed to prevent poaching and the futility of a domestic ban on that objective. She also did a great job personalizing the devastating impact on small businesses and the lives of artists, artisans and collectors who have always complied with the law and who share the goal of ending the slaughter of poached elephants.

Bottom Line - we haven't stopped the Domestic Ivory Ban freight train, but we may have slowed it down. By the end of the meeting, Advisory Council members acknowledged that the Domestic Ivory Ban posed genuine problems and political challenges. They noted that everyone agreed on measures they want to take to stop illegal poaching (prosecuting poachers and traffickers of poached ivory), and but for the Domestic Ivory Ban their proposals would not be controversial.


The timing of new rules is not yet clear. There will be something published in the next few weeks addressing CITES that possibly could include revocation of an existing special rule under the Environmental Species Act. This could set up a legal framework prohibiting interstate trade of ivory. They said to expect a 30 day comment period on that rule.


The "final rule" should come out in June, after which there will be a comment period. We specifically asked that these rules not be issued as "interim final rules" which would go into effect immediately, and instead asked that any rules published be subject to comment before they can be enforced. I think we have a good chance of getting this because of the wide ranging concerns raised, but nothing is guaranteed.


-- Robert Mitchell
[h=2]Help Stop the Ivory Ban and Prevent an Expansion of Poaching[/h]


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Call or Write Today! Now is the time to start making your views heard.

Call your Congressman and Senators TODAY! Activist groups are already lobbying Congressmen heavily, and they are totally misrepresenting what the regulations and legal changes will do to you. You need to inform them about what the proposed changes in the law will do to you, your collections, your businesses, and your families. The message is simple - We all want to stop elephant poaching, but these laws punish innocent Americans, not elephant poachers or illegal traders in Asia. CALL COGRESS at 1-202-224-3121 and ask them to oppose the Ivory Ban. Locate your Congressman at: [url]http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/[/URL]

Email and Call the White House at 1-202-456-1111 and Email and Call the Fish and Wildlife Service at 1-800-344-9453, to let them know you oppose this ban on sale and trade of legally owned ivory.

Call your trade organizations and make sure they are representing your interest in this matter. Groups like the NRA, AARP, collectors associations, professional associations, knife clubs, gun clubs, industry lobbying groups - all of them need to hear from you and be educated about the severity of this threat. These calls have a multiplier effect when they lead back to law makers, and they are starting to get people's attention!

Spread the word on social media. Use Facebook, Twitter, e-mail lists, internet forums, and all the ways you communicate people to spread the word about what the government is doing and why the Domestic Ivory Ban is a very bad idea.

When you all or write, PLEASE BE POLITE. The more personalized it is, the more impact it has. Just copying the points below is better than nothing, but it is far better to put it into your own words and emphasize your own situation, how it effects you, and your personal point of view.

The points to emphasize:

  • While you strongly support conservation efforts, this will likely result in an increase in elephant poaching, opposite what is intended. This will only lead to more slaughter of elephants!
  • "Takes" hundreds of millions of dollars of Americans' investments in ivory in violation of the 5th Amendment.
  • Presumes guilt, making all ivory owners criminals, no need for the government to factually establish illicit activity, which is both un-American and irrational.
  • No practical way for most Americans to establish their ivory is legal. Establishing exceptions based on evidence virtually nobody can provide is patently abusive.
  • The current system and rules have proven effective at restricting U.S. trade in illegal ivory, no need to fix what's not broken. The problem is not the U.S. and this outrageous ban in the U.S will not affect the huge market for illegal black market ivory in China and elsewhere. In its September 2012 Fact Sheet, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS) stated, "we do not believe that there is a significant illegal ivory trade into this country," clear proof by the agency enforcing this ban that this is not a problem in the U.S.
[SIZE=+1]Opposing this outrageous ivory ban is not going to be easy. Please donate today to help us protect your rights and interests.[/SIZE]
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Mark,
Can you remind me again, how is this ban bad for elephants? I must have gotten lost somewhere.

I am reading the rights of Americans are being violated.. That seems to be the overriding focus of the Knife Rights group. I dont find that strange or unusual, being involved in protecting rights for everyone, everywhere. But, shouldnt there be some content that addresses the problems of elephants more than the protection of freedoms and elephant viewed as "parts and merchandise"? I dont see where..

" Stop the illegal ivory ban! Save elephants"

What is that statement trying to say? - it reads like double talk to me.

"Eat shark fin soup! Save sharks."
That's how it looks..
David
 
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Domestic Ivory Ban Will Increase the Slaughter of Elephants

One final thought. Dr. Daniel Stiles, a world renowned expert on African
elephants and a prominent member of conservation organization, has recently
concluded that the initiatives under consideration in the United States will
dramatically increase elephant poaching instead of decreasing it. Crushing
the domestic market in the United States will make the legal supply of ivory
disappear. As ivory becomes rarer, prices will increase, giving poachers an
even greater incentive to kill elephants for their valuable tusks.



What do we know about this? Less supply always equals greater demand? Or will more people find alternatives to using ivory products..
David
 
Mark,
Can you remind me again, how is this ban bad for elephants? I must have gotten lost somewhere.

I am reading the rights of Americans are being violated.. That seems to be the overriding focus of the Knife Rights group. I dont find that strange or unusual, being involved in protecting rights for everyone, everywhere. But, shouldnt there be some content that addresses the problems of elephants more than the protection of freedoms and elephant viewed as "parts and merchandise"? I dont see where..

" Stop the illegal ivory ban! Save elephants"

What is that statement trying to say? - it reads like double talk to me.

"Eat shark fin soup! Save sharks."
That's how it looks..
David

Domestic Ivory Ban Will Increase the Slaughter of Elephants

One final thought. Dr. Daniel Stiles, a world renowned expert on African
elephants and a prominent member of conservation organization, has recently
concluded that the initiatives under consideration in the United States will
dramatically increase elephant poaching instead of decreasing it. Crushing
the domestic market in the United States will make the legal supply of ivory
disappear. As ivory becomes rarer, prices will increase, giving poachers an
even greater incentive to kill elephants for their valuable tusks.



What do we know about this? Less supply always equals greater demand? Or will more people find alternatives to using ivory products..
David

Hi David, I can't defend quotes of other people, but I think your second question answered your first one.

From my perspective, poaching of elephants is a huge problem, it's going to take all of us working together to solve it. We are not going to be able to work together if half of us are trying to take rights, privileges and personal belongings away from the rest of us.

Second, right now we are raising money to help solve a problem. Half of the money raised will go to help protect elephants. There is a group in Africa that actually guards elephants from poachers (they are in dire need of funds). I'm having to use half of the money raised to fight the ban, If we didn't have to fight the ban, all of the money raised would be going to help protect elephants.

Third, we are using elephant ivory on one of the knives to raise money to save elephants. We are doing this to show that ivory can be used to save elephants and that people that use ivory care about elephants.

Forth, If the stockpiles of ivory in the US and other countries was sold and the money used to support efforts to stop poaching instead of being crushed it would have done two things. It would have provided much needed funds for the fight against poaching and it would have helped lessen the demand for ivory. When you crush ivory, you crush the supply, not the demand.

And Fifth, All of the time, energy and money spent on restricting the sale of legal ivory in the U.S. and other countries could be much more effectively used in actual programs on the ground in Africa to stop poaching. Instead of making Americans just feel like the U.S. is doing something about poaching, the U.S. should actually do something about poaching. (I have written about the things we could do) I think it is dangerous to let Americans think that all they have to do to save elephants is deny the use of legal ivory from other Americans. In the end, if we have no elephants, and have given up all the rights, privileges and belongings, that this ban takes, and the fifth amendment and the right to be assumed innocent until proven guilty, we have given up a great deal to achieve nothing.

To answer your questions specifically, The phrase " Stop the illegal ivory ban! Save elephants" means stop the illegal ban on legal ivory, not "stop the ban on illegal ivory". Illegal ivory is already banned. It is not the same as saying "eat shark soup, save sharks."

There are no alternatives to ivory, people that want ivory want it because it is ivory. They do not want a material that looks smells, tastes and quacks like ivory. If there comes a time that we cannot use ivory, we will use other genuine items not imitations. That's one of the things that make collectable things collectable. My contention is that we should be able to use ivory as long as it can be demonstrated that it is not contributing to the poaching of elephants. I think I have demonstrated that very well. None of the people in the forefront promoting the ban have demonstrated that it will save a single elephant.

I personally have tried to bring a balanced approach to this whole issue, resist the ban, and do things that actually save elephants. In my post on page 8 #149 I tried to steer the conversations what we could all do to actually save elephants. On post number 153 and 154, I laid out alternatives to a ban that could help. That was over a month ago. In subsequent posts I asked for volunteers to form a comity to brainstorm a plan that we can all get behind to help solve the problem. Not one person contacted me, not one. It seems the only thing that any one wants to do is talk about the issue, with the exception of the great guys helping to make the knives. If we could have gotten a bunch of people, on both sides of the issue, together and ironed out a plan that we could have presented to the USF&W council that would actually have saved some elephants, maybe we could have made things better. Now we are all (still) just fighting over whether or not there should be a ban. Elephants are still being poached in record numbers and nothing will change if this ban goes into affect.
 
Mark, I retreated from this thread some time ago but wish to make one additional comment here, considering the statement you've made above:

" Not one person contacted me, not one. It seems the only thing that any one wants to do is talk about the issue, with the exception of the great guys helping to make the knives"

With all due respect, there are more paths that can be, and perhaps are being, followed other than yours and that which is suggested in this thread.
 
Mark, I retreated from this thread some time ago but wish to make one additional comment here, considering the statement you've made above:

" Not one person contacted me, not one. It seems the only thing that any one wants to do is talk about the issue, with the exception of the great guys helping to make the knives"

With all due respect, there are more paths that can be, and perhaps are being, followed other than yours and that which is suggested in this thread.

OK, what are they, and why can't we work on them together? I am willing to talk about all alternatives to a ban, what I meant was no one contacted me do something, not just talk about doing something.

And I am sorry, I forgot to mention Steven, who sent some cash to help.
 
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Mark, you are doing your thing, I am doing my thing - and perhaps others are doing their thing. I don't intend to re-join the discussion here to describe what others may or may not be doing. Please don't take my current comments here to mean you're not doing fine work. But I don't intend on being examined here - so I retire from this thread once more.
 
Mark, you are doing your thing, I am doing my thing - and perhaps others are doing their thing. I don't intend to re-join the discussion here to describe what others may or may not be doing. Please don't take my current comments here to mean you're not doing fine work. But I don't intend on being examined here - so I retire from this thread once more.

It just seems that there are a lot of passionate people here but it seems like not much action is taking place. I do not mean to say you personally are not doing anything.

I think that if people have found ways to help solve the problem the rest of us could learn from them. We can't do much as individuals, we can do a whole lot more as a group.

If you are not a "joiner" that's OK, I would have thought out of 24,000 views and two months on the front page of this forum, more people would have gotten more involved.

We are all being examined, what we say, what we don't say, people are always watching. :D:D
 
Mark,
Hi How are you doing?
Do you have any idea or source of information on how many pounds/tons of
"Pre-ban" Elephant ivory is currently stockpiled/Warehoused in the USA?

Are there any projections of how long said amount of legal ivory will last until its all been purchased or used? This information would be useful when writing legislators to tell them this important information.
 
Mark,
Hi How are you doing?
Do you have any idea or source of information on how many pounds/tons of
"Pre-ban" Elephant ivory is currently stockpiled/Warehoused in the USA?

Are there any projections of how long said amount of legal ivory will last until its all been purchased or used? This information would be useful when writing legislators to tell them this important information.

Hi Laurence, I'm doing good, got sweat running into my eyes, just came in from the forge.

As near as we can tell, there aren't any stockpiles or warehoused ivory in private hands except for what a few dealers have.

When we talk about stockpiles we are talking about both legal and confiscated ivory that various governments are holding till a time in the future when they may be able to dispose of it in one way or another, either through legal sales or destruction. The sources for these stockpiles are confiscation, natural deaths, culls where the elephant population had exceeded the carrying capacity of the habitat they occupy, and from deaths due to defense of life and property (DLP) among others. In the U.S. some of what was crushed was legal ivory that people just didn't know what to do with, I know this from first hand knowledge.

Craftsmen in the U.S. don't have a stockpile really, the material they use primarily comes from estate sales and dealings between private parties. One of the studies I read had this to say;

•The country consumes an estimated less than one tonne of raw ivory annually, down from seven tonnes a year in the late 1980s. Craftsmen each use an average of 8kg of ivory a year and say that the USA has an adequate supply.

•Craftsmen use mostly old, legal, raw ivory to manufacture new knife, gun and walking stick handles, scrimshaw pieces, cue stick parts and jewellery. They often use broken or damaged ivory items for restoration work.

•The USA has a good record of enforcing CITES regulations in respect of international wildlife trade and has reported the largest number of seizures of illegal ivory in the world, according to the Elephant Trade Information System.

•This study determined that the US ivory market has a small detrimental effect on elephant populations ,more from importing illegal worked ivory for retail sale than from local ivory manufacturing. Some contraband gets past Customs and there are no effective internal ivory transport and retail market controls.


It is a continuously revolving supply, someones Grandpa dies, they have an estate sale. Someones carved tusk falls over and cracks so they sell it to someone else for use in something else. Many of the craftsmen using ivory don't need very large pieces, like for musical instruments and inlay of all kinds, so it can continually be used and reused an indefinite number of times. Unless it is outlawed.

There are a few studies (by private groups, not the government) going on to determine the numbers of people, that will be affected by a ban like this. Pretty good estimates seem to say that about three thousand craftsmen in the U.S. use legal elephant ivory in their crafts, untold millions of people that own the articles they make will be effected, they include collectors of all kinds of things from art objects, chess boards, musical instruments, knives, guns, duck and turkey calls, and antiques of all kinds to name a few. Even if you don't take these things away from people, making them valueless is as bad in my opinion. If a persons net worth is comprised of investments in various things that include ivory objects, and that person did nothing wrong, is it proper to institute laws that make his investments suddenly worth nothing? In the U.S. the total dollar amount is in the millions (again an estimate, I think some real good studies need to be completed so we can get an idea of real numbers). I think it is not a proper thing to do, especially if law enforcement does not have the burden of proof, and especially if it can not be demonstrated that to do so would save any elephants.

Good question, thanks for asking it.

An easy way to say it is, all the ivory that was ever legally imported to the U.S. is still here, millions of pounds? It is something, either tusks or carvings cue balls or something, it is the stock pile. It has the capacity to be used again and again until it is too small to be used for anything else. Unless it is outlawed. As an example, I have about two hundred ivory piano key veneers that I was going to use for liner material on some handles.

Talk to you later, Mark
 
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Mark,
I understand that ivory can be repurposed for smaller items. My questions was really more concerning the amount that large dealers have? I can remember reading in newspapers when the ban was going into effect that "Dealers" were getting as much tusk into the country before the ban on importation came into effect.

I was wondering if there was any idea how much is in current Dealer hands? If there is anyway to know that?
By the way the state of California where I live already has a law that No ivory art work can be resold. I am not sure how this would affect say a piano or bassoon or other instrument that contain ivory ?
 
One of the major ivory dealers said he was selling out, "liquidating", in my opinion he was playing up the ban to get a feeding frenzy going in order to work it to his advantage. The other three or four are trying to work through this issue and see where we are in the end. They have all had a run on material, some of them have no elephant ivory right now. But like I say, it is a revolving stock, the ones that choose to stay in business will get some more materiel, if they are allowed to. They will go to estate sales and advertise to build their inventories back up.

My sense is that there is not a huge supply in dealers hands, it's not the way the industry works, the stuff come in one door and goes out the other. In times of recession people try to get some money out of some of the valuables have so they might sell some ivory, just like when the price of gold went up and a lot of people converted gold into cash. It's always fluctuating.

It's kind of like asking me how much money I have in the bank, today I might have a bunch, in a week it could all be gone, but I will try to build it back up again. But, I (and they) would never tell you an amount.

Sorry I couldn't help
 
Well the Govermint, is always good at putting numbers out og the air.
I would think they would have some kind of estimate of current "Unworked ivory"? They tell us all the time how many tons of some illegal drug there are currently or annually? No figures on this evil pre-ban ivory that they want to ban?

Please remember I am not trashing you or any one that works with it and I understand that you only sell Anicent ivory.
I am surprized that they don't seem to have a number for this thing they want to quell.
 
By the way the state of California where I live already has a law that No ivory art work can be resold. I am not sure how this would affect say a piano or bassoon or other instrument that contain ivory ?

This is not entirely correct. While it is difficult to find the text that discusses this issue, here is a copy and paste, which is California-specific:

"Both African and Asian elephants are protected under the U.S. Endangered Species Act (ESA) and the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES). The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service is the principle Federal agency responsible for implementing and enforcing the ESA and CITES. Under the ESA and CITES, the Service regulates import and export, as well as interstate and foreign commerce in elephant ivory. California law regulates the sale of elephant ivory within the state.

The sale, importation, and exportation of elephant ivory is contingent on many different rules and regulations. In general, export of raw African and Asian elephant ivory from the United States is prohibited. Import of raw African elephant ivory, with the exception of sport-hunted trophies, has been banned since 1989 following the enactment of the African Elephant Conservation Act (AECA). African elephant ivory can be legally owned or bought and sold within the United States provided it meets ESA requirements and state laws. Worked African elephant ivory acquired before its 1978 ESA listing or antique (over 100 years old) ivory may be imported or exported for non-commercial purposes or, in limited situations, for commercial purposes with a certification from the Service. Prior to the AECA moratorium, African elephant ivory was legally imported to the U.S. for both commercial and non-commercial purposes, thus, under federal law, such ivory can be legally owned and sold, including in interstate commerce. Asian elephant ivory that was purchased prior to its 1976 ESA listing may be sold in intrastate commerce, if allowed under state law, however, the sale or commercial transfer of Asian elephant ivory in interstate and foreign commerce is strictly prohibited.

California Penal Code section 653o was enacted in 1970 and amended in 1976 to include elephants. This section prohibits the importation, possession with intent to sell, and sale of any parts of specified animals, including elephants. However, an uncodified portion of the statute states that Penal Code section 653o does not apply to the sale of elephant items imported prior to June 1, 1977. In addition, federal courts have held that Penal Code section 653o is preempted by federal law with respect to its prohibition on trade in elephant products to the extent trade in elephant products is authorized pursuant to federal regulations or permits. See Man Hing Ivory & Imports, Inc. v. Deukmejian, 702 F.2d 760 (9th Cir. 1983).

Penal Code provisions are typically prosecuted by the offices of locally elected District Attorneys. The Penal Code may be enforced by police officers and sheriff deputies as well as other peace officers throughout the state. Neither the California Fish and Game Code nor state wildlife regulations enforced by the Department of Fish and Game (Department) reference elephants or elephant products. Elephants are not native to California, nor do they reside in the state in the wild. Although the Department expects investigations related to the possession and/or sale of elephant ivory to be led by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the Department’s Law Enforcement Division may provide assistance to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service when requested by their Special Agents."

Hope this helps to clarify, though it may instead simply muddy the issue, as it often seems to do when it's read. I believe the text is dated but I'm told it's still effectively accurate, and comes from the Dept of Fish and Game's site.
 
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"CALIFORNIA....continued"

Another section within the DFG site goes on to say:

Information Regarding CA Penal Code Section 653o

This law, enacted in 1970 makes it unlawful to, “. . . import into this state for commercial purposes, to possess with intent to sell, or to sell within the state, the dead body, or any part or product thereof, of any polar bear, leopard, ocelot, tiger, cheetah, jaguar, sable antelope, wolf (Canis lupus), zebra, whale, cobra, python, sea turtle, colobus monkey, kangaroo, vicuna, sea otter, free-roaming feral horse, dolphin or porpoise (Delphinidae), Spanish lynx, or elephant.”

The statute contains few exceptions, but interpretations by federal courts have modified its application in some instances, particularly if the animal is listed under the Federal Endangered Species Act and federal regulations authorize some trade. The California Department of Fish and Game cannot advise you regarding the effects of federal court decisions and federal regulations. The Department discourages the sale or commercial importation of any item containing these species except upon the advice of a person licensed to practice law in California.

The law only applies in California, and it does not prohibit possession for any other purpose, e.g., importation or possession for personal use, home decoration, education, etc. of legally acquired items containing these species. For example, if you purchase a mounted specimen or piece of clothing or jewelry in another state or country where it is legal to do so, this law does not restrict you from bringing it into California for your personal use (see additional information below concerning importing wildlife products into the U.S.).

The complete law and penalties for violations are available online in the California Penal Code @ http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Many of the species covered in 653o are also regulated by federal laws related to their importation and possession for personal or commercial use. Questions regarding these federal laws should be directed to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. They can be reached online @ http://www.fws.gov/
 
Well the Govermint, is always good at putting numbers out og the air.
I would think they would have some kind of estimate of current "Unworked ivory"? They tell us all the time how many tons of some illegal drug there are currently or annually? No figures on this evil pre-ban ivory that they want to ban?

Please remember I am not trashing you or any one that works with it and I understand that you only sell Anicent ivory.
I am surprized that they don't seem to have a number for this thing they want to quell.

Hi Laurence, No, I think we are understanding each other correctly, I see where you are coming from. I don't think they have any numbers at all. They don't know who will be affected, how big or small the problem may be, or if it will even make a difference to elephant populations. That's what is so frustrating about the whole thing. They have much bigger resources than any of us do but, every one I have spoken to relayed some of what I have learned to, including USF&W, representatives, had any numbers at all. My argument has been if you want to solve a problem, you need to first have some figures, without any solid numbers you can't be effective at solving any problems. You just don't know where to start.
 
California law is confusing and ambiguous, it's very hard to follow. In the last couple years, some of my competitors that have businesses in California have had to stop dealing in walrus ivory because California regulations changed, and prohibited it. They are currently fighting it because state laws are not supposed to eclipse federal law, as one of the pieces Bob sited notes. It's a mess there. That's as I understand it anyway.
 
I have some great news, progress on the knives is moving along. Mike Quesenberry is ready to start his handle.
Bill Burke is working on his blade as we speak. I hope to add pictures as we go along.

I am also pleased to say that Jane Tukarski and Linda Karst Stone Have graciously volunteered to scrimshaw the knives for us. Timing may be tight and we still need to work out a schedule that works for everyone. I am happy to welcome them on board.

Gary House,damascus completed
Bill Burke, blade
Don Hanson, handle
Jim Small, engraving
Paul Long, sheath
Jim Cooper, Photography

Linda Karst Stone has generously volunteered to scrimshaw this knife.

second knife;
Russ Andrews, damascus, completed
Dave Lisch, blade, completed
Mike Quesenberry, handle
Steven Rapp, sheath
Jim Small, engraving
Jim Cooper, photography

Jane Tukarski has volunteered to scrim this one.


My sincerest thanks to all involved, I have received cash donations to help the guys pay for materials, like gold, so the craftsman don't have to incur a huge out-of-pocket expense. If you would like to help with that please let me know. I would like to thank Greg and Steven for cash donations.
 
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