New WE/Isham Bladeworks collabs.

augustus88 said:
Professional artists don’t just express themselves with their values and aesthetic. There are time tested design principles that should be applied to an artist’s personal aesthetic so they can communicate effectively with their intended audience.
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And several have pointed out, and I am joining them...that, for them, has not happened with these knives.

I find nothing "outstanding and very harmonious" about them. Yikes. :confused:

To each his own.
 
augustus88 said:
I have a fundamental misunderstanding of what art is?!?!

I’m professionally trained and have 28 years of professional art and design experience (not just teaching, but working for major studios). My wife is a professional designer with 27 years of experience as well. I’m pretty sure I understand what art is.

There are design principles that apply to art and design, not just whatever the “artist” wants to express however they want to express it. Professional artists don’t just express themselves with their values and aesthetic. There are time tested design principles that should be applied to an artist’s personal aesthetic so they can communicate effectively with their intended audience.
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Bud, no one came here to read about your credentials. As a professional STUDENT of anything for three decades, I think you should be able to understand what Blackfish is saying. He "thinks" (as hes entitled too) that isham has successfully reached a certain part of the knife market with his designs. This would mean that while his art does not speak to you, it does speak to many of the knife community.

I feel confident in claiming that several of Isham's designs aren't made for hard use EDC. As you've already pointed out, there are several things that limit the functionality of his blades. Those holes bug the crap out of me, but I enjoy the aesthetic so much that I'm considering purchasing an Arrakis. The Isham designed knives popularity are indicative of Mr.Isham's ability to communicate with the knife community. He may have failed to create something built for serious EDC and I would never use his designs for tactical purposes, but damn does he make a visually interesting cutting implement.

P.s. disappointed to hear the zeta was a whole lotta hotspot. I've yet to purchase any Ishams but they've always looked ergonomic. Here's to hoping the Arrakis doesn't have the same issue.
 
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Blades'N'Beetus said:
Bud, no one came here to read about your credentials. As a professional teacher of anything for three decades, I think you should be able to understand what Blackfish is saying. He "thinks" (as hes entitled too) that isham has successfully reached a certain part of the knife market with his designs. This would mean that while his art does not speak to you, it does speak to many of the knife community.
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After handing some of these designs...

He should not be designing knives.

300$ useless paper weights. That people just buy to take photos and sell.
 
Are his kizer designs failing as well? I've read a negative review or two on the isham Theta. I've been eyeing the sozë. Can't remember which reviewer this came from but someone recently suggested in video that Isham's designs from WE are really just WE knives showing off what machining they're capable of. Still haven't actually purchased an isham so I can't pretend I know how they feel in hand.
 
marcinek said:
And several have pointed out, and I am joining them...that, for them, has not happened with these knives.

I find nothing "outstanding and very harmonious" about them. Yikes. :confused:

To each his own.
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Same here... Defending "designs" like this is pointless. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I'm 100% for it. Problem is, nova-days, the beholder have no real understanding of art, their standards are lower because they watch YT instead of reading about art. IMO - those are Decepticon-like try outs, variations, targeting customers who like to wear knife as accessory, objects of conversation in couple hundred bucks range, low standards pieces... More power to whoever likes those, they spending their money, I'm happy if they'r happy, we all share same hobby after all, just don't convince me please that this is art or will do everything a less "arty" knife will do, it's a pointless conversation...
 
ExtremAddiction said:
but , is mass produced item can be considered "art" ?
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It's being done long time ago...

warhol_tomato_soup_onwall-1000x1000.jpg
 
My biggest complaint is the massive holes/cutouts in the blade they just seem like such points of structural weakness. The only knife with his name on it I actually think I could use is the Isham Bladeworks Blackstar.
 
The arrakis is a very useful shape and blade shape, if it fits your hand (as is the case with any knife), my biggest and only complaint being that it's a little thick behind the edge. If anyone thinks the holes in the blade are a structural weak point, you are not using a folding knife properly. There are other, better tools for you to use as a prybar, screwdriver, chopper, etc, not sure why you'd be looking at doing anything other than general cutting/slicing on something that costs $300. Mr. Isham is not looking to impress those "built like a tank" emerson, ZT, cold steel abusing your folder type folk.
 
Blades'N'Beetus said:
Bud, no one came here to read about your credentials. As a professional teacher of anything for three decades, I think you should be able to understand what Blackfish is saying. He "thinks" (as hes entitled too) that isham has successfully reached a certain part of the knife market with his designs. This would mean that while his art does not speak to you, it does speak to many of the knife community.

I feel confident in claiming that several of Isham's designs aren't made for hard use EDC. As you've already pointed out, there are several things that limit the functionality of his blades. Those holes bug the crap out of me, but I enjoy the aesthetic so much that I'm considering purchasing an Arrakis. The Isham designed knives popularity are indicative of Mr.Isham's ability to communicate with the knife community. He may have failed to create something built for serious EDC and I would never use his designs for tactical purposes, but damn does he make a visually interesting cutting implement.

P.s. disappointed to hear the zeta was a whole lotta hotspot. I've yet to purchase any Ishams but they've always looked ergonomic. Here's to hoping the Arrakis doesn't have the same issue.
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Okay, let me take one last stab at this, bud.

First of all I don’t care if you didn’t come here to read about my credentials. I shared that info to support my argument. Metallurgist make Bladeforums comments on blade steel and nobody gets their panties in a twist.

Some of Mr Isham’s knives are absolutely outstanding examples of visually pleasing designs that will be appreciated by most people. Some of his designs aren’t as well received by MOST buyers because he’s breaking design rules a bit too much to be widely appealing. Those designs probably aren’t selling very well because they’re slightly off and would benefit from some tweaking in order to appeal to a broader audience.

I was told I didn’t understand art on this forum when I’ve made quite a nice living for myself implementing a very thorough understanding of art and design in a very tough field. Anybody slams a cop, carpenter, doctor or engineer and they can defend their position with experience and expertise. I support my argument with info on why I know a thing or two about art and I get crap! I didn’t insult anyone, but Blackfish tossed a shot my way. Art is the only profession where everyone and anyone is an expert even if they’ve never been trained or worked professionally.

I personally don’t care about Blackfish’s personal taste in knives or his personal opinion. I was simply stating that some of Mr. Isham’s designs are less popular than others because he’s broken or pushed the boundaries of too many design principles. Sometimes the awkward results don’t appeal to as many people. Yes, some people will like them (remember the Pontiac Aztec?), but there’s a reason why not all of his designs are as well received. A few tweaks to some designs would broaden the appeal of some of his less popular knives. Overall he’s a talented designer, but even the best artist misses the mark every now and then.
 
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augustus88 said:
Okay, let me take one last stab at this, bud.

First of all I don’t care if you didn’t come here to read about my credentials. I shared that info to support my argument. Metallurgist make Bladeforums comments on blade steel and nobody gets their panties in a twist.

Some of Mr Isham’s knives are absolutely outstanding examples of visually pleasing designs that will be appreciated by most people. Some of his designs aren’t as well received by MOST buyers because he’s breaking design rules a bit too much to be widely appealing. Those designs probably aren’t selling very well because they’re slightly off and would benefit from some tweaking in order to appeal to a broader audience.

I was told I didn’t understand art on this forum when I’ve made quite a nice living for myself implementing a very thorough understanding of art and design in a very tough field. Anybody slams a cop, carpenter, doctor or engineer and they can defend their position with experience and expertise. I support my argument with info on why I know a thing or two about art and I get crap! I didn’t insult anyone, but Blackfish tossed a shot my way. Art is the only profession where everyone and anyone is an expert even if they’ve never been trained or worked professionally.

I personally don’t care about Blackfish’s personal taste in knives or his personal opinion. I was simply stating that some of Mr. Isham’s designs are less popular than others because he’s broken or pushed the boundaries of too many design principles. Sometimes the awkward results don’t appeal to as many people. Yes, some people will like them (remember the Pontiac Aztec?), but there’s a reason why not all of his designs are as well received. A few tweaks to some designs would broaden the appeal of some of his less popular knives. Overall he’s a talented designer, but even the best artist misses the mark every now and then.
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Given your responses I don't think my undergarments are the ones knotted up.....

THAT SAID I agree with you, Isham's designs do miss the mark for plenty. But as I previously mentioned, some people are of the opinion that the ones he's releasing are him experimenting and WE knives strutting their stuff. A number of the models he's released (much like the ones previously mentioned in this thread) are clearly not for hard use. I think these past few models have been happy opportunities for Mr. Isham to give the knife world a taste of his more wild and impractical designs. Also said designs, while not smash hits, have gathered the attention of many in the community. Hell we're talking about it now for a reason, and Its not just negative interest that's being generated in this thread as far as I can tell.

Btw yes I still think mentioning your credentials was ridiculous. This is a forum, I don't know you personally. If you were a cop and mentioned having 20 years on the force I probably wouldve said the same thing. No one cares about your credentials because we can't determine if you're telling the truth or an armchair commando. Without knowing you, your claim does pretty much jack to support your argument.

I urge you to take a step back to re-read. The original comment was not an insult but an opinion. Blackfish quite literally said "I THINK that... [your opinion]...shows a fundamental misunderstanding of art". And my follow up was to suggest that if you're really an art student with 30 years experience (including both training and career work) I imagine you deal with people who have a flawed/different interpretation of art all the time. Instead of being offended, Id ask that you share some of that experience (in regards to ishams knives). Or at the least share more of your opinion. Tell us some specifics, if possible, about the design elements that Isham has pushed too far. It's easy enough for most knife users to see that holes in the blade cause a structural weakness. But what about his blades push the limits of art design to the point that they cross a line for you?

Narrowing it down, I'm most interested in the new Arrakis! What elements on that knife do you think needs improving? Are there obvious hotspots or lines seem to contradict the themes of the handle/blade????
 
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Blades'N'Beetus said:
Given your responses I don't think my undergarments are the ones knotted up.....

THAT SAID I agree with you, Isham's designs do miss the mark for plenty. But as I previously mentioned, some people are of the opinion that the ones he's releasing are him experimenting and WE knives strutting their stuff. A number of the models he's released (much like the ones previously mentioned in this thread) are clearly not for hard use. I think these past few models have been happy opportunities for Mr. Isham to give the knife world a taste of his more wild and impractical designs. Also said designs, while not smash hits, have gathered the attention of many in the community. Hell we're talking about it now for a reason, and Its not just negative interest that's being generated in this thread as far as I can tell.

Btw yes I still think mentioning your credentials was ridiculous. This is a forum, I don't know you personally. If you were a cop and mentioned having 20 years on the force I probably wouldve said the same thing. No one cares about your credentials because we can't determine if you're telling the truth or an armchair commando. Without knowing you, your claim does pretty much jack to support your argument.

I urge you to take a step back to re-read. The original comment was not an insult but an opinion. Blackfish quite literally said "I THINK that... [your opinion]...shows a fundamental misunderstanding of art". And my follow up was to suggest that if you're really an art student with 30 years experience (including both training and career work) I imagine you deal with people who have a flawed/different interpretation of art all the time. Instead of being offended, Id ask that you share some of that experience (in regards to ishams knives). Or at the least share more of your opinion. Tell us some specifics, if possible, about the design elements that Isham has pushed too far. It's easy enough for most knife users to see that holes in the blade cause a structural weakness. But what about his blades push the limits of art design to the point that they cross a line for you?

Narrowing it down, I'm most interested in the new Arrakis! What elements on that knife do you think needs improving? Are there obvious hotspots or lines seem to contradict the themes of the handle/blade????
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Done arguing with you. Don’t have to prove anything. I can post proof of my background and professional experience, but that would give you more to call ridiculous, etc. Enjoy your weekend.
 
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The ones in the first photo remind me of rainbow trout. Not really a fan of all the colors. The rest is tolerable but not purchasable to me.
 
People have different taste in knives.
None of the knives pictured in this thread prior to this post are to my taste (in fact they very far removed. Id buy one just as soon as a Mantis).

The Isham Blackstar on the other hand....

Babyboomer said:
I think the Wirkkala puukko could be an example of mass produced art. Of course, that knife has a whole different aesthetic.
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Just because we need a good looking knife in this thread

NTsNaWA.jpg
 
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augustus88 said:
I personally don’t care about Blackfish’s personal taste in knives or his personal opinion.
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Yet here it is over six months later, and you're still upset about my personal opinion that you don't know much about art. If you didn't personally care, you might have let it go in the intervening months. Design and art are not the same. There's nothing well designed about a can of poop. There's nothing well designed about a statue of a crucifix submerged in piss. It's still art. Art is about far more than just design. Your conflation of art and design tell me that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of art and the purpose there of. "Doesn't make sense from an art point of view" is just a nonsensical sentence.


As for the knives, the real reason we're here, I like the shapes and colors of the Pleroma and Aeterna. I was disappointed when the Aeterna was only released in a gray carbon fiber colorway, and the Pleroma ain't even out yet but is apparently only releasing in the gold colorway. I like purple. I like bold color and swoopy designs.
 
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