New Winklers arrived today!

foxx said:
My pleasure mc5aw! I hope it's okay to show some pics of mine as well? In honor of Easter, I've used an appropriate background, Happy Easter!

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Thats sexy!:thumbup:(the 'Hawk)
 
Square_peg said:
They're sure nice to look at.
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True but i certainly won't be spending such fund for eye candy. I'm waiting for Mr. Winkler to send over my last ditch blade and axe.

Square_peg said:
I'm not certain that is the case. I would be concerned with any 'hawk or axe where the haft is thicker than the thickest part of the axe head. What happens when the blade enters the wood up to the depth of the haft? I'll answer that. You'll start beating the crap out of your haft. I haven't used one so I can't say for sure that the haft wont take such a beating. I'd just be pleasantly surprised if it could.
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The head has the thickest part and tapers down along the haft. Say it does go into the wood that deep you could wiggle it out. I'll be interested to find out such wood mushy enough where you could sink the whole head in yet so tough to get it out.
The steel used by Dan are certainly not your average backyard bar- His methods of HT is one of best and Combat Axe is a results of many feedback from the Special Forces and unless you are one of them, how do you measure your abuse up to what these soldiers did? I say at the highly stressful and time constraint, the ergo and design of such important tool must had been given major attention.

Square_peg said:
I've seen some other 'hawks where the head sticks thru the haft instead of the other way around. You know darn well those are gonna fall apart as soon as you use them. They might look cool on the wall but they would be of little use in the field, IMO.
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If Edwood7 isn't beating the life out of some soldiers there he would love to tell you how he used them in the field.

Foxx,
I see you have been training with the Sayoc Trainer!
 
Square_peg said:
I'm sure you're right about the strength of the tang. I've never doubted that. And they'd be handy in a fight. I just think that the handles would get knocked loose if you gave the tool a serious workout. There's a reason why working axes are made the way the are.
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I guess it's a possibility. The GG&G Battlehawk is 440z, and like I said the G-10 scales are held on with torx screws, no epoxy. I've beat the hell out of it, thrown it against dead trees, had the scales hit right on the stump. I've beat on a fence post, with the handle hitting the wood, that's the G-10 hitting full force, the scales have not moved, or taken any damage.
I've thrown my Ontario RD Hawk as well, I've seen where the scales have hit the tree, at the butt of the handle. Those scales are held on with screws that are into an aluminum barrel. The scales shifted a bit, but have not broken off.
Mr. Winkler used the full tang construction so that even if the scales do break, you still have a "handle", a bit of paracord wrap, and you've fixed it in the field. Any tradtional made hawk or axe, with a wooden haft, would break way before the micarta, and leave you without a weapon. With gloves on, you could still swing a Winkler Sayoc, Combat Axe, or many other full tang tomahawks.

I've practiced with tomahawks for many, many hours. I have three full tang hawks, and have not damaged any of their handles, yet I've broken a few wooden handles, and chipped some here and there, all while chopping wood. Sometimes you miss, the handle takes the impact, that's the way it goes. I would not hesitate to hit any of my full tang hawk handles on any material, a car, cinderblock, concrete, an enemy's weapon, anything. I'm not strong enough to break them. Maybe if temps were sub-zero, and I hit at just the right(or wrong) angle, against a very large hard object, I guess a handle scale, a screw, or pin could break. So be it, I still have more faith in them, for combat or breaching than any wooden handle.
I do own axes, hatchets, and hawks with wooden handles, I like them all. I just have no reason to think that handle scales would get knocked loose so easily. I'd like to hear some stories from those that have knocked any of these type handle scales loose, or broke them off.
 
Take a look at these spike hawks.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/848371-Let-s-see-your-spike-hawks/page2

See the swell in the center of the head? All I'm saying is that these Winkler hawks would be improved by a swell in the middle like that. If the head is fatter than the haft then the haft is protected. It's basic to everyday axe design. If it's not an issue then why is every other axe in the world designed with a swell in the middle?
shrug.gif
 
Square_peg said:
Take a look at these spike hawks.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/848371-Let-s-see-your-spike-hawks/page2

See the swell in the center of the head? All I'm saying is that these Winkler hawks would be improved by a swell in the middle like that. If the head is fatter than the haft then the haft is protected. It's basic to everyday axe design. If it's not an issue then why is every other axe in the world designed with a swell in the middle?
shrug.gif
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Square,

MOST of these axe heads are forged and fastened to a haft. The closest thing i can think of that has both FT and a haft are the boarding axe and SOG hawk:
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What Winklers and RMJ and the rest of the full tang gang have are produced via stock removal method.
There's no need to enlarge the swell by welding another piece of metal or any process whatsoever.

The evolution of tomahawks as seen in "The Patriots" or the Last of Mohicans to the current full tang (still head heavy for light breaching but balance enough for CQC ) was defined by the warriors and technology on that era.
Like what Foxx said, you are going to have a find a haft should it broke but i doubt you could break a full tang.
We also need to remind ourselves such axes are specialty tools- they are made accordingly to the inputs of special forces and not meant to chop wood efficiently.

I bought a RMJ Kestrel not just for giving the break-in thieves a new face but most importantly to cut myself and family through the door should there be any emergency.

* Currently communicating on making an axe with L6 head and lignum Vitae handle. It should be indestructible!
 
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Square_peg said:
Take a look at these spike hawks.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/848371-Let-s-see-your-spike-hawks/page2

See the swell in the center of the head? All I'm saying is that these Winkler hawks would be improved by a swell in the middle like that. If the head is fatter than the haft then the haft is protected. It's basic to everyday axe design. If it's not an issue then why is every other axe in the world designed with a swell in the middle?
shrug.gif
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It's only an issue when the haft is made of wood. Those Walk By Faith hawks are all bolted from the top, that area has to be made thick enough not to crack. Even if that width is to help splitting wood, then it's still for a different reason than the purpose of full tang hawks. There's lots of protection and strength from the extra steel running down those hafts. Just remember though, it's still wood under there. Don't get me wrong, I like all tomahawks, they all have their place and purpose.


Keep in mind the overall size of the Winklers, and similar, tomahawks. The Sayoc is only 13" long, the Combat Axe is only 14" long. They are stout little tomahawks, yet lack the kind of speed and power you get from a longer handle. Even if you swing as hard as you can, you won't sink the head all the way into solid hardwoods. Winkler hawks are made to be carried on your person, and for combat, not chopping wood. If you drive the head into a door, miss your target, and the handle hits the door, no big deal, it's 3/8" thick right there, you may scratch it, but that's all. Drive the spike into a car, a window, cinderblock, whatever, the full tang can take it.
They just don't need external support, they are strong from within, and the heads are thick enough in all the right places to be strong.
 
Also take into account that these are built for a particular purpose in mind. Cqb. They can be used for other purposes but they really are designed and excell at that.

Wish one of you guys lived near me. Would like to test drive an RnD hawk. I am seriously considering selling off some equipment and ordering one. foxx, between you and edwood I just might break down and do it :)
 
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jwaj,

I'll be at the Solvang Knife show in a couple of weeks. A bit of a drive from the Bay area but... If you want to test drive one of the RnD hawks let me know and I'll bring one with me.

Daniel
 
How great is it when you can receive responses directly from the source? Thank you again to Mr. Winkler for two exceptional axes!
 
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