New ZT 0560BW - Beautiful knife, but brutal detente

Splitt65

Splitt65

Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
171
Mates,

Ordered a new ZT 0560BW from Edward at Uberknives, great experience already posted about in another appropriate section. The knife is really sexy in the black wash, great in the hand, thrilled with the purchase. But wanted to just throw a couple of questions out. The detente on the knife is brutal, which I know, from much reading and from owning a 0550, can be an issue. But on this one, I cannot open the blade with the thumb stud (which I know is primarily a blade stop on this knife) and if I have a finger anywhere near the lock bar I cannot open it with the flipper, which I also know can be an issue. If I am totally away from the lock bar it will fire out smoothly once the detente is broken (very sore finger right now), and when the lock bar is disengaged the blade moves freely and will almost fall shut. When it gets to the last part of movement the ball sucks the blade in with a click. The blade is well-centered, cheating just a little bit towards the lock bar side. I can barely get a piece of paper in between the end of the lock bar and the blade when closed.

I have no intention at this point of sending it back or of sending it in to ZT. I know that it may just need to be flipped and broken in. And after following a running thread on this forum I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of opening it up. But wanted to ask before doing anything, if I loosen the pivot screw, will this move the (end of the) blade towards the lock bar side or away from it? Which way will it move if I tighten it? Don't want to do anything to affect the knife without some additional knowledge. Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.
 
Mates,

Ordered a new ZT 0560BW from Edward at Uberknives, great experience already posted about in another appropriate section. The knife is really sexy in the black wash, great in the hand, thrilled with the purchase. But wanted to just throw a couple of questions out. The detente on the knife is brutal, which I know, from much reading and from owning a 0550, can be an issue. But on this one, I cannot open the blade with the thumb stud (which I know is primarily a blade stop on this knife) and if I have a finger anywhere near the lock bar I cannot open it with the flipper, which I also know can be an issue. If I am totally away from the lock bar it will fire out smoothly once the detente is broken (very sore finger right now), and when the lock bar is disengaged the blade moves freely and will almost fall shut. When it gets to the last part of movement the ball sucks the blade in with a click. The blade is well-centered, cheating just a little bit towards the lock bar side. I can barely get a piece of paper in between the end of the lock bar and the blade when closed.

Also, as an aside, as I have read on some other threads, the SS frame had been milled, while the titanium side was not milled as some were.

I have no intention at this point of sending it back or of sending it in to ZT. I know that it may just need to be flipped and broken in. And after following a running thread on this forum I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of opening it up. But wanted to ask before doing anything, if I loosen the pivot screw, will this move the (end of the) blade towards the lock bar side or away from it? Which way will it move if I tighten it? Don't want to do anything to affect the knife without some additional knowledge. Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.
 
When you say open it up, are you talking about taking the knife apart or bending the lock bar out a little? What are your hesitations about either?
 
Pivots not going to help.

Everyone has different hands and strengths so its impossible for every flipper or any knife to please everyone.

You say you have no intention of opening it up and tweaking the lockbar so I would say play with it till your fingers toughen up or the knife wears enough.
 
^^ I would go with this advice. ^^ But..... when you're ready to open her up, I'm sure you can find something on u-tube to help you out, or one of us.
 
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I'm not sure why the 0560BW's relations with Russia are brutal, but if you are talking about the detent, yes, the 056x series have tight detents. I would suggest not messing with the lock bar at all, you will be sorry if you do. I would recommend just flipping the heck out of it to break it in and if you want to use the stop pins as an opener just learn to keep your fingers off the lock bar.
 
Lost Cosmonaut said:
I'm not sure why the 0560BW's relations with Russia are brutal, but if you are talking about the detent, yes, the 056x series have tight detents. I would suggest not messing with the lock bar at all, you will be sorry if you do. I would recommend just flipping the heck out of it to break it in and if you want to use the stop pins as an opener just learn to keep your fingers off the lock bar.
Click to expand...

Wrong, wrong,wrong.....lockbar tension is the key to tuning these knives to perfection.
 
bodog said:
When you say open it up, are you talking about taking the knife apart or bending the lock bar out a little? What are your hesitations about either?
Click to expand...

Bodog, I am hesitant to take it apart for two reasons - if I were to send it back (and I have no present intentions of doing so) I would not want to take it apart to tinker with it, and more importantly, I do not yet have the confidence in my abilities not to screw it up!:D
 
Loosening the pivot will move the blade towards the side on which it is loosened from. So for a 560 it should move towards the presentation-non-lock side, The detent will wear in with use, and if I had that knife and the blade was favoring the lock side already, I would definitely give the pivot a turn or two to loosen it up a bit.
 
Loosening the pivot will move the blade towards the side on which it is loosened from. So for a 560 it should move towards the presentation-non-lock side, The detent will wear in with use, and if I had that knife and the blade was favoring the lock side already, I would definitely give the pivot a turn or two to loosen it up a bit. I would ask Bigmark what his thoughts are about the lockbar are though, he seems knowledgeable and adamant!
 
Lost Cosmonaut said:
I'm not sure why the 0560BW's relations with Russia are brutal, but if you are talking about the detent, yes, the 056x series have tight detents. I would suggest not messing with the lock bar at all, you will be sorry if you do. I would recommend just flipping the heck out of it to break it in and if you want to use the stop pins as an opener just learn to keep your fingers off the lock bar.
Click to expand...

I only caught that after I posted, spell check told me to spell it that way, and I knew it was wrong! And good detent of the blade may actually be good for detente with Russia if Putin keeps up his tom foolery, as of all my folders this is the one I would take with me to try and scare them into submission, it looks that tough!:p
 
Splitt65 said:
Mates,

Ordered a new ZT 0560BW from Edward at Uberknives, great experience already posted about in another appropriate section. The knife is really sexy in the black wash, great in the hand, thrilled with the purchase. But wanted to just throw a couple of questions out. The detente on the knife is brutal, which I know, from much reading and from owning a 0550, can be an issue. But on this one, I cannot open the blade with the thumb stud (which I know is primarily a blade stop on this knife) and if I have a finger anywhere near the lock bar I cannot open it with the flipper, which I also know can be an issue. If I am totally away from the lock bar it will fire out smoothly once the detente is broken (very sore finger right now), and when the lock bar is disengaged the blade moves freely and will almost fall shut. When it gets to the last part of movement the ball sucks the blade in with a click. The blade is well-centered, cheating just a little bit towards the lock bar side. I can barely get a piece of paper in between the end of the lock bar and the blade when closed.

I have no intention at this point of sending it back or of sending it in to ZT. I know that it may just need to be flipped and broken in. And after following a running thread on this forum I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of opening it up. But wanted to ask before doing anything, if I loosen the pivot screw, will this move the (end of the) blade towards the lock bar side or away from it? Which way will it move if I tighten it? Don't want to do anything to affect the knife without some additional knowledge. Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Lol I know what thread you're talking about. I have an 0561, similar problem. Try taking the pocket clip off the lock bar. Switching it from tip up to tip down will help because the pocket clip is pushing in on the detent, it's under pressure. I did that and flipped it and it broke in. It broke in so much I put the pocket clip BACK to tip up to make it flip better. Hope this helps.
 
Splitt65 said:
Bodog, I am hesitant to take it apart for two reasons - if I were to send it back (and I have no present intentions of doing so) I would not want to take it apart to tinker with it, and more importantly, I do not yet have the confidence in my abilities not to screw it up!:D
Click to expand...

Smartest post I have heard today....if you don't feel confident don't do it or you will be posting a repair thread....I wouldn't send it in either because of reasons posted in my first post....IMO,your satisfaction would be hit or mid.
 
I believe that KAI declared somewhere that the knife was being produced to use the flipper only. Using the blade stop as a thumbstud, even though it has been tweaked with a stiffer detent to disallow that is just sadistic. I own a couple of those and believe it or not, it's supposed to have the pivot tight, not loose. Since the knife has captive bearings (KVT) the blade will roll out smoothly with the flipper, as designed. Comparing the first generation 0560 with some of the most recent, you can absolutely see some changes from the location of the lockbar cut out to the addition of a steel insert to other smaller things. Not bashing you but, it's like saying "Eastwing hammers, great smashers brutal screwdrivers". It's not exactly a problem in a traditional sense, just trying to use it in a manner which it was not exactly designed.

Somewhere in this thread, is the "Official" explanation from a KAI employee and designer no less.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...560-issue-please-help?p=12192607#post12192607
 
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RevDevil said:
I believe that KAI declared somewhere that the knife was being produced to use the flipper only. Using the blade stop as a thumbstud, even though it has been tweaked with a stiffer detent to disallow that is just sadistic. I own a couple of those and believe it or not, it's supposed to have the pivot tight, not loose. Since the knife has captive bearings (KVT) the blade will roll out smoothly with the flipper, as designed. Comparing the first generation 0560 with some of the most recent, you can absolutely see some changes from the location of the lockbar cut out to the addition of a steel insert to other smaller things. Not bashing you but, it's like saying "Eastwing hammers, great smashers brutal screwdrivers". It's not exactly a problem in a traditional sense, just trying to use it in a manner which it was not exactly designed.

Somewhere in this thread, is the "Official" explanation from a KAI employee and designer no less.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...560-issue-please-help?p=12192607#post12192607
Click to expand...

Rev, thanks for the info. Just wanted to add that I do not intend to use the thumbstud/blade stop for opening, just put that in to illustrate how stiff the detent presently is.

And thanks everyone for the replies and the offers to help. This forum is great!
 
RevDevil said:
I believe that KAI declared somewhere that the knife was being produced to use the flipper only. Using the blade stop as a thumbstud, even though it has been tweaked with a stiffer detent to disallow that is just sadistic. I own a couple of those and believe it or not, it's supposed to have the pivot tight, not loose. Since the knife has captive bearings (KVT) the blade will roll out smoothly with the flipper, as designed. Comparing the first generation 0560 with some of the most recent, you can absolutely see some changes from the location of the lockbar cut out to the addition of a steel insert to other smaller things. Not bashing you but, it's like saying "Eastwing hammers, great smashers brutal screwdrivers". It's not exactly a problem in a traditional sense, just trying to use it in a manner which it was not exactly designed.

Somewhere in this thread, is the "Official" explanation from a KAI employee and designer no less.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...560-issue-please-help?p=12192607#post12192607
Click to expand...

East wing hammers... Lol.

It is possible to have the best of both worlds with these knives and I have several to prove it....ZT made that statement for the reasons I mentioned above....everyone has different strengths.... I have seen grown men with fingers like a child.
 
bigmark408 said:
East wing hammers... Lol.

It is possible to have the best of both worlds with these knives and I have several to prove it....ZT made that statement for the reasons I mentioned above....everyone has different strengths.... I have seen grown men with fingers like a child.
Click to expand...

I don't have fingers like a child, probably medium-sized hands and relatively strong. The problem is that the fingers on my left hand are tough from fretting my guitar, but my right strumming fingers don't have any calluses built up! Wish I was ambidextrous (or amphibian, as some might say). I'm sure the knife will break in, I just wanted to see if any minor tweaks could be made to hasten this process. Not complaints, just questions. I love the knife already, have been a long-time ZT fan, and this 0560 is beautiful and came really sharp right out of the box. Thanks everyone.
 
Splitt65 said:
I don't have fingers like a child, probably medium-sized hands and relatively strong. The problem is that the fingers on my left hand are tough from fretting my guitar, but my right strumming fingers don't have any calluses built up! Wish I was ambidextrous (or amphibian, as some might say). I'm sure the knife will break in, I just wanted to see if any minor tweaks could be made to hasten this process. Not complaints, just questions. I love the knife already, have been a long-time ZT fan, and this 0560 is beautiful and came really sharp right out of the box. Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

You need a 12 string with some Ernie Ball Super Slinky's, and get to rocking some Flamenco style music. :D
Don't feel bad, i have yet to find anyone that can thumbflick my 0560BW. So far 9 firefighters, 2 diesel mechanics, and one plumber have all failed, me included. Design tweak.
 
Ive had my 560BW since last Nov, and it was initially that tight, after having carried it probably twice as much as anything else I own its as near perfect deployment as I feel any knife Ive ever owned or used. Im with everyone else that says send back if you feel theres a pressing issue you feel like is preventing it to be perfect, but from personal experience I say just play with it and do what ThomasW hates people to do and use it as a stress ball.
 
RedDevil is right...the 0560 has no thumb studs, they are only blade stops. Its flipper only, and it will loosen up over time. My experience has been the same as mtbaddict's. For me, playing with the flipper for a few days made a noticeable difference and the knife is now easy to open with a small amount of force on the flipper.
 
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