Newbi question on steels and hardness

E

Elkslayer

Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
18
First off, I apologize if this is in the wrong place, I couldn't figure out a better spot to post it in.

I have tried to do searches to answer my question but haven't come on an answer either.

Being new to knife "collecting" and purchasing custom made knives I have found myself on info overload trying to understand the various types of steel (i.e. D2, s30v, aus6, aus8 and so on) then throw in Rockwell hardness and I'm lost.

What I want to know is what is a good to great steel and hardness combination that will keep its edge for a fixed blade hunting knife? Is there a chart someplace that shows lousy to very hard but brittle? I know the harder it is the more brittle it is (I hope that is right).

Help! :confused:
 
Ahhh the eternal debate. Good thing you qualified it to fixed blade hunter and edge holding.

I'll throw in my vote:

S30V at 59rc with cryo.

tough, sharp, and long lasting.

On the carbon front, I've heard amazing stories about 52100, but haven't duplicated them myself.

Steve
 
It's a hard thing to generalize but as a metallurgist and hunter I will try. My test for a hunting knife is to take a sharp knife and do it all just with that knife without resharpening.That means dressing out , skinning and completely butchering a deer. Then I know how it handles ,blade shape ,handle shape and edge retention. For me that comes out to be about 4" blade slight drop point and a handle that has a plain shape(no finger grooves etc).As for steel I look for 1.00-1.25 % carbon this gives me steel that can be hardened well and have good edge retention. Then you have to decide stainless steel or non- stainless. For the non-stainless a straight carbon 1095 will work well.I really don't have experience using something like 52100 for knives ,as it is often used for bearings.For the tool steels A2, D2, O1 all work well.D2 is often called semi-stainless. For the stainless alloys you need about 14% chromium. The 440 comes in three types similar to AUS 6,8,10 .The lower carbon types are not good ,But 44A and AUS10 work well. As we add other alloying elements we improve the properties - ATS-34, 154CM, BG42, S30V all are excellent. As for hardness each steel has its own properties but in general 57-60HRc hardness will give a good combination of wear resistance and toughness.A good steel poorly heat treated makes a poor knife.
 
That's an easy one for me but remember what Mete said: A good steel, poorly heat treated makes a poor knife.

My favorite all time steel is 5160.
My favorite Stainless is ATS-34

My favorite hunter is the Super Chubby that was designed by the great Bob Engnath.
This was a design he came up with to use the end or bars that were too short for anything else. I haven't come up with anything better.
You can see it here:
http://www.engnath.com/public/drwframe.htm
 
Once you read some recommendations here you might want to check out Crucible's site. Just about all of the steel data sheets will have generic comparisons to others.

Right now I am using fairly hard D2 knives for skinning, which is about all I ask of a 'hunting' knife. For a camp knife I would probably go with something with a little more toughness, A2 and INFI knives have both been carried in pack but there are several others out there that would fit the bill.
 
Thank you all for your answers. They have helped me understand this issue better and understand what the knifemakers I am speaking with are saying.

Yes, I am looking for a knife that will hold its edge for cleaning and quartering game. I use a different knife for skinning. But my cleaning (gutting) and quartering knife must be able to handle several elk or moose between sharpenings. I use a meat saw for the pelvis, briskit, and backbone.

As far as being tough to sharpen, I have about 8 months to get that job done after the hunting season ends and before the next one begins and I put the knife into use. After the hunting season starts there isn't much time to be working on sharpening a knife in camp when the trail head is 15 miles back down the trail.

Thanks again, and BTW, I prefer a 4" "loveless style" drop point.
 
There was an error in my post , 44A should have been 440C. As for sharpening almost all my sharpening is done with an Eze-lap diamond rod. The one that is about 4"x1/4" that fits into its handle. A few light strokes with this will bring any knife back to full sharpness.
 
My all time favorite steel is 52100, with a hard edge and soft spine makes for a tough combination. I dont' realy know what the rockwell is, probly in the 59-60 range.

One good test is to sharpen and roll the edge on a 1/4" brass rod. If the edge flexes and comes back true it's a good indication that the blade is not to hard or soft. If the edge chips it's too hard, if it stays bent it's too soft. Not real scientific, but it works.
 
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