Newbie asks about bootknives

S

slavheart

Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
7
Hi everyone,

Great site!

I live in a city/country that can be unfriendly in very quick and very unexpected ways. (A few weeks ago, some thugs in a small convoy of SUVs tried to run me off the road. I had to gun my V-8 to get away. The police here are unpredictable, but you can assume they won't be around when you need them.)

So, I'm thinking I'd like to pick up a bootknife to keep with me at all times. The problem is: the only thing I know about bootknives is they look very, very cool and I tend to prefer the double-edged type.

Can anyone please recommend manufacturers and give a quick rundown of things I should consider before making a purchase?

On a few web vendor sites that I've seen, I've been surprised to see prices as low as $15 (USD) for a bootknife....can that truly be a quality item? I'd have thought that a quality bootknife would be closer to $50 or even $100.

Also, are bootknives worn in only one way or are there various methods?

I'd appreciate any other suggestions for how I might discretely equip myself and/or "stock" my own batmobile in case of any other roadside madness. I occasionally have to make some long road trips over here and I just don't want to feel totally defenseless again in the future.

Thanks in advance,

Slavheart
 
You need to think about accessability. Trying to get a knife out of your boot when you are adrenaline pumped and/or running from trouble can be difficult to say the least. As far as your vehicle goes, why not keep a large bowie or khurkri under or beside the seat. The bad guys will think twice about someone waving one of those around.
By the way, where do you live? Sounds like you need to be prepared.
By the way, Welcome to blade forums. I think your questions of every type can and will be answered here.
Good luck and stay safe, Mongo
 
You know i just re-read the post, you need alot more than a boot knife
A few weeks ago, some thugs in a small convoy of SUVs tried to run me off the road
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I mean a small convoy? im thinking 10+ people here, am i correct? i dont care if you are the best knife fighter in the contry you are not taking on 10 people or more with a boot knife. It just isnt going to happen, you need a gun or explosives, maybe a few frag grenades would scare them off, for that amount of people something that has full auto would be good :) maybe a UZI or a MP5. I mean think about it, if you have to fend off 10 people you are not doing it with a knife.
 
Might want to look at nexk knives instead of boot knives, per se. A good one with a good sheath can be used in many configurations lilke neck, IWB, and even boot. However, a knife would not help in the situation you describe. Might want to check out the tactics and training forums. Lots of good advice there about all aspects of SD, not just knives and weapons. Welcome to the forum.
 
What is your dress and lifestyle?

Are you into a quick solution or are you willing to stretch yourself?

What is your martial training background?

Have you already totally decided that you want a 'bootknife' and nothing else? Or do you want a resolution to the issues no matter where it may lead you?
 
Thanks for the info, everyone. Just to clarify: yes, it was several SUVs who tried to force me off the road for no apparent reason. used the term "convoy" because they never, simply never, break ranks and it's one way they protect their boss. I don't know why they got pissed at me...maybe the local mafiosi just think it's a fun thing to do at 8pm on a blustery winter night. Anyway, I'd never consider going against that many folks with just a knife. And it's not my intent to go up against anyone if I can help it.

Most times, I'm on foot in a very large city that is poorly lit on most streets....lots of drunks milling about and some of them can become belligerent. Then there's the occasional troublemaker or young tough who might want to give you a truly hard time.

I don't dress outlandishly...I'm not loud or flashy. In fact, I'm your run of the mill, mild-mannered Clark Kent. No martial arts background other than some rapier fencing....but that's just a sport, isn't it?

Marion David Poff, I'm not sure what you meant about quick solutions vs. stretching myself. Do you mean taking the time to learn a martial art vs. just hiring Thugs R Us?

Anyway, I'll be sure to check the sites you've all mentioned. Thanks for the tips and keep 'em coming if you've got any more.

Thanks again,

Slavheart
 
slavheart-

I don't dress outlandishly...I'm not loud or flashy. In fact, I'm your run of the mill, mild-mannered Clark Kent.
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OK. Do you usually wear multiple layers? Jacket, Sweater, Dress Shirt, T-Shirt or Jacket over a T-shirt?

Do you wear your clothes form-fitting or loose?

Do you change clothes during the day? Going to the gym, baths, special work clothes?

Do you wear a belt? Fashion or Function?

What is the max total length you would currently feel comfortable with?

What is the minimum total length of knife you would feel confident wielding?


No martial arts background other than some rapier fencing....but that's just a sport, isn't it?
Click to expand...

With a little modification in light of street comditions and the type of knife, I would think that would be a fine base for knife combatives. Of course, your best preparation for any potential self-defense situation is awareness/confidence/psychology training and hand to hand combatives. Since, even if you are carrying a weapon, you 1) do not want to get in a fight, so if you can figure out how to avoid them through awareness (the 4 A's -if you can keep Awake and Aware, you can get Away, Alive-). De-escalate through confidence. And avoid panic through proper metal preperation. Then, if a situation does go to physical confrontation, you may not have a knife on you, a ife may not be justified, you may not be able to access you knife or you may lose it during the fight, so, in any of those circumstances hand to hand training is necessary.

I'm not sure what you meant about quick solutions vs. stretching myself.
Click to expand...

Are you merely looking for a bootknife(you have already made up your mind), or are you looking for a total solution(even though it may be something completely different than what you were expecting)?


My philosophy about this sort of thing is partly revealed in the above, if the rest of this repeats some of it, please forgive me.

Preperation. Do it before you need it. If you need it now, do it as soon as you can. This includes mental issues and research.

1) Avoidance.
a. Appearances- Go out of your way to either blend with the populace, and if that is not possible, try to keep your appearance from being too discordant. You do not want to stand-out. You want to be ignored.

b. Attitude- You bearing, demeanour, and attitude should be polite but firm. Confident but not arrogant or cocky. You do not want to be seen as a Bait Fish nor as a Shark.

c. Awareness- You should never let your focus wander from the situation at hand. No matter how interested you are in the goods you are perusing, the sights you are soaking up, or her assets, a part of your mind should constantly assessing the people and landscape around you.

d. Some situations may not be worth the risk

I am tired of typing, my apologies. If there is a desire to have me continue with my thoughts, I will, but I realy do not want to type out the next ten parts to find that no really gives a rip.
 
Oh yeah.

To your original question......

Sorry, got off on a tangent....

I prefer a strong utility knife, that possesses a utilitarian or camping look, ombine this with a sheath system.

A boot knife is often thought of as a small dagger held in a sheath in the boot.

But, the fact that you can only carry that sort of knife in a boot, and that it is double-edged limit it's usefulness.

So, if you were to carry a knife that both fulfilled all of the requirements of perceived self-defense needs, and is useful in a utilitarian way, then for the preponderance of occasions you will have a high-quality utility knife. And, if by some twist of fate, you are involved in a situation that you cannot avoid or de-escalate, and that requires a knife, you will be set.

To make sure that you are carrying that knife..... Acquire multiple sheathes, of different types, for that knife. So that, when you are in shorts or a kilt you can wear it clipped to your waistband, lanyarded to a leg or around you waist. Or, when you are out for the evening, you can carry it horizontally in the small of your back or under your arm. And when you are in the taiga in January, you can wear it outside you jacket, hanging so that you can get to it, without opening your jacket.
 
I would think a boot knife would be a last ditch weapon that you would posess if you have the need to fight for your life.
With the situation that you've described, I'd try to get a handgun if possible. Having a convoy trying to run off the road......
In many regards, a fixed blade would be better than a folder, but if the laws says you cannot (and you're not the type who likes to defy the law and have them confiscate things), you might want folders.
There are plenty that would be up to the task, and as others have suggested, it should have some utility purposes. It may not be that you have to fight for your life against a person, but perhaps a seatbelt, or clothing, if you're caught by any of them.
In a car, I carry a 4D Mag-Lite. I'm not aware any laws concerning cars and "weapons" in Canada, and since I used to work as a delivery driver, it made sense for me to have a durable flashlight anyways.
I'd get a neck knife before I get a boot knife, but I must admit I think that they're pretty cool. Dagger types with double edges tend to be weaker and only good for stabbing/piercing.
 
Hi Marion et al,

To answer some of Marion's questions:

1. I usually dress business casual...imagine the Dirty Harry movies (not trying to make comparisons...really): tweed jacket, dress shirt, tie, typical khaki pants, run-of-the-mill belt. My shoes, though, are a bit different: 10" tall Matterhorns for winter wear and 10" tall Altama jungle boots in warmer weather. Where I live, you have to spend about 9 months of the year in some kind of heavy coat, mid-weight jacket, or light windbreaker. In fall, winter, and spring, I wear some kind of wool hat, usually a winter version of a greek fisherman's cap. Summers are extremely short, so only a couple of months without a coat, though I still wear a blazer or some kind of jacket for work.

So, how can I discretely arm myself? I've been fascinated by the United Cutlery Stinger system I've seen where you can wear two small knives on the small of your back. Any other clever suggestions? And consider that, at some point during the day I'm going to have remove my jacket, so I can't be seen as bristling with knives...even one would be too much while I'm at work. Any publications out there? How do I find out more about the different sheath systems?

2. Regarding martial arts and training: I work out often and want to find some kind of practical martial art that I can practice solo most of the time. I saw a great book today by someone named Hocke (sp?) called Encyclopedia of Knife Fighting. It looked very good, though I could see only a little of it on Amazon.com Does anyone recommend this or some other title?

3. Lastly, can anyone recommend any sites that discuss ideas on how to modify a vehicle to give some nasty (but non-lethal) surprises to other vehicles giving me a hard time on the road? I've long had some ideas of how I could rig mine in a few ways, but I'm not much with tools and need some guidance.

It might sound as though I'm looking for trouble when I'm out and about. That's not the case at all. I'm very laid back and easy going, but I've often found myself in some very uncool situations, whether on foot or behind the wheel, through no fault of my own. I'd just like to have some ways to defend myself and, maybe, reasonably take someone down a peg in a humble and harmless way. (By way of example, if I were to seriously study a martial art, I'd want to learn a "soft" style. As I understand it, that means you're much more passive in the encounter and you use a technique that ends up using the attacker's force/momentum against himself.)

Whew, if you got this far, thanks for reading! As you can see, I'm hungry for suggestions and ideas.

Slavheart
 
Find martial arts schools near you and see if you like any of them. As most people will tell you here, United Cutlery tends to be cheap. Check out some quality neck knives. A good one can be carried under your shirt without anyone ever knowing. Also look into OC for pocket carry. A koppo stick os also a viable option and maybe even an ASP baton. I do not know how legal these things are where you are either, so check it out. With your jacket on none of these things would be hard to conceal. Most can also be carried with the jacket off too. Whatever you decide on you need to practice with it in the proper manner. About those boots, are they steel toed? If not, might want to look into it. Companies like bladerigger sell innovative SD tools. Check them out. Above all, get yourself into a tactical mindset. Make an effort to scan and asses the situation. With proper situational assesment, the probability of needing to actively fight for your life is dramatically reduced. It still can and does happen, but might as well stack the odds in your favor as much as possible.
 
Hey Newbie :

My experience in the military ( 11Bravo ; infantry ) taught me a
boot knife doesn't have to be expensive to be effective. Just sharp.
when I was stationed at Ft. Benning I had a Gerber Command II which
served me well. My recent acquisition is the Junglee "Yakuza" tanto
with serration(s) along the spine & about 5" blade. ALL for $39.97.
Check out the Sportsmans Guide on the Web :

www.sportsmansguide.com

They have all sorts of antique bayonets, name brand & "quick fixes"
for reasonable prices! They also have lots of military surplus bargains ; I'm eyeballin the West German "Stah helm" w/"flectar" camo
cover at $19.97. Just keep in mind you may only use your boot knife once, if at all. So who wants to carry a $150 piece of steel the cops might impound? Play it safe.

A.E.T.
 
I agree to a point. However going cheap is not the way to go. What if that bargain stinger breaks at the hilt. It is no good even once. A Livesay Woo only costs $25 and it ain't gonna break on you. A good solid folder for around $100 (many less) is not going to let you down. Maybe a cheap alternative will protect me just as well. However, in the big picture $150 is nothing. Save $3 a week on other things and you have broke even. My piece of mind is worth the extra $$$. Look around on the for sale forums. You can get good pieces at good prices. Also might want to take a look on the battle blades forum about SD knife combos under $200. I understand not wanting to spend much (believe me, you can't spend what you ain't got). Here are some quality fixed blades for SD for relatively little money that offer good quality and great value.

Livesay Woo
CRKT Companion
CRKT Ryan Plan B

There are more, but all of these are under $35.

You like double edged knives?

Applegate-fairbairn- $85
SOG Pentagon and Mini-Pentagon- $80 & $44
Cold Steel Peacekeeper I or II- $65
Fallkniven G1- $80

Personally I would take the cheapest of these over 5 of the cheap special agent stingers or similar knives.

Folders about. Find some you like the features of and then ask about them here and hold them for yourself and you will be able to find something of quality for not a lot of money. If you are serious about wanting to carry a knife for protection, buy serious equipment. Sorry this post got a bit long, it just bothers me a bit when people are not willing to spend a little money on tools that can possibly save their life.
 
Hey one2gofst :

The Junglee "Yakuza" is, at regular retail price $79.95,NOT by
anu means cheap. I just don't "buy into" ( pun intended )"expensive
is better" ; if one can get the same for less, why not? Some would
chime "you get what you pay for" which is true to an extent. Try this : You are offered a Spyderco Gunting for $150, or $90. Both new,
in the box. Would you take the one for $150? or the $90 one? I say this as one of our forumites one the Spyderco forum
( GlassHartt@aol.com ) has Spydies for less than the MSRP. I got the
C 59 "Shabaria" for $90 ; alot less than the $120 MSRP. Newbie, you might want to take a note from me : I'm ordering the Tim Zowada from
GlassHartt ( which is sort of a folding "boot knife" ) for $85!
This gives creedence to the old adage : The proof in the pudding is in the eating. Just my two cents. But, forumiites, for the best
price on Spydies, try GlassHartt@aol.com. E-mail her for a list. You
won't be dissappointed.


A.E.T.
 
slavheart, welcome to Bladeforums!

I won't try to discourage you from carrying a knife for self-defense, but knives are primarily offensive weapons. If you do carry one, your first problem is accessibility. The cheapest or the best or the sharpest or the coolest will do you no good if you can't get to it.

This is why a lot of us like folders. Clip one to the top of a front right-hand pocket and you're almost always good to go. Get a knife like the Emerson Commander that practically opens itself, with a blade optimized for slashing that can penetrate if necessary. If you don't want to show the knife on the job, just unclip it and let it fall deeper into the pocket until you go outside again. If you're wearing heavy outer clothes, clip it to the front of your shirt under your tie, and reach in past the coat collar to get it.

Fixed blades are stronger but impact weapons are stronger yet. You've studied some fencing. How about a cane if you're walking through a rough neighborhood? You can get blackthorn or ash or even rattan which can mess up some bad guy's day. No one solution is going to be ideal in all circumstances.

You can get a cheap knife to play with for now, but I'd recommend you read up more right here at Bladeforums on which knives are designed for the job, and what kind of quality you can get for the money you want to spend. That means getting an idea of materials, too. It takes time for all the information to sink in :)

Then go to our Exchange forums and buy the knife you like from someone who's unloading a good used one cheap!
 
Of course you go for the less expensive when all other factors are equal. Interesting you brought up the Gunting because I spent $82 and $90 on my Gunting and Drone respectively. However, by telling someone to look for the less expensive knives means they are looking at price first. Better to find a quality blade and then look for the best deal on it. Maybe a better way to do it is this. Look at the MSRP on the knives. Generally, as MSRP increases so does the quality of the knife. This takes out the variable of retail pricing.

You spoke about "quick fixes". I would not buy a "quick fix" because that fix might break you if you ever need to rely on it. Better to save the money until you can afford equipment that you can count on. Carrying a tool that you cannot trust is asking for trouble.
 
Hey one2gofst :

I think it rather presumptuous to say the quality of the knife goes
up with the MSRP ; what I meant by "quick fixes" was relating to a
previous posting of mine, in which I asked the forumites at large if they ever bought el cheapo knives for the sake of "buying a knife"
nothing more. BTW in the Army, we seldom used our "boot" knives ; instead we relied on the $104 per copy M-16A1.

A.E.T.
 
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