"Newbie" considers using Commander

S

SYK

Joined
Feb 21, 2000
Messages
2,232
Hi gentlemen

I'm considering getting a Commander because of the wave feature.

But I have doubts about its utility value and also the reliability of its liner lock. Some years ago, I handled a bunch of Emersons and they all didn't seem to lock up well to me. But lately I noticed some of the newer models are of better quality and lock up.

I usually carry BM AFCKs and Spydercos, which suit my utility needs but I wanted something that could be presented faster for emergency use.

The Commander has a handle something like my AFCKs, except that it doesn't have that shelf to put your finger close to the blade to choke up for delicate work.

I also carry my toddler sometimes and I don't want it to open up accidentally and cut him. So far, I've never had a problem with my axis AFCKs and spyderco lockbacks, because of the positive closing pressure.

You could say that I like everything about the Commander except 1)its liner lock, 2)its lack of indexfinger shelf 3)its half v/chisel grind

I usually carry one AFCK and two spydies.....my country has UK-like gun laws.

Thanking you in advance for your advice.
 
Well...I'm holding a Commander right now and I can tell you that it is a solid knife. I'm sorry to hear that you had problems with earlier emersons, but i can assure you that my '03 COmmander and '04 mini cqc have strong locks.

As for the wave? Other than personal opininon you will be hard pressed to find somebody who does not like the utility of the wave feature. As I understand it, it is faster than an auto. If you are worried about it opening, you can somply tighten the the blade screw and make the knife harder to open.

there are other Emersons witht he wave feature that you might also might take a look at. No matter what, tell us what you decide.
 
i have never had nor heard of anyone having probs w/EKI's w/a wave accidently opening up ............

lock up on emersons is supposedly much improved the last year/so though i have never had probs w/EKI in that regard either.
 
My Commander is rock-solid. Never had a problem w/ the linerlock at all. As for utility- check it out- it's a comfortable piece- a natural user. I've had to send mine back to EKI for a tuneup after I whanged the devil out of it- totally my fault & they sent it back to me 100%- only charged me postage.
 
Gentlemen, thanks for your replies. I am still undecided on the purchase, and am going to handle some pieces before deciding.
 
OK, I went to my dealer and handled all the Emersons he had. Sadly, he was out of Commanders and I only handled the CQC-7, Mach-1, some Ravens, and some of those with the bottle-shaped handle.

The lock-up was OK. I think with the Emersons, you have to like the design and wave function so much that you are willing to overlook the linerlock and possible QC problems of the earlier pieces.

I have decided to place an order for a 2002 Commander or later model, or maybe a Mini-Commander, also 2002 model or later. I will get one of them, but haven't decided on the small or big yet.

Regarding the finish, I don't need the black and I personally don't find black blades pretty. For the serrations, probably the partial as I am not a great sharpener and find the serrations useful in cutting semi-hard fibrous mediums that my self-sharpened plain edge would tend to slip off.

I've read in the threads that the 2002 models have a bigger spacer that makes the handle more rigid, has a bigger stop pin, still has the thin liners, but the lock up is better, maybe the manufacturing process is better.

I think that Emersons are designed primarily as self-defence pieces and if I get one expecting it to slice better than a millie or have better finish than a BM, I'm going to be disappointed. Also the linerlock, it's not going to out-strength a gunting, but maybe it is sufficient, if you don't use the knife in such a way as to fail it.

I hope that I will receive the piece with the right expectations, and also hope that it will fulfil what I believe a piece should have for good self-defense usage.

Thank you.
 
I have no complaints whatsoever about the Emerson's strength or lock-up, I would trust it with my life. While I can't comment on the Commander, I do carry a waved P-SARK and an AFCK (older liner-lock, model 800) on a regular basis.

Here is a comparison as I see them, YMMV:

Scales & liners - Both have high quality, grippy G-10 scales and the liners are stout. Both have strong, secure lock-up. Both have great ergonomics, but I prefer the thumb-ramp on the Emerson.

Fit and finish - The nod goes to Benchmade, but the difference does not affect function.

Blade thickness - The Emerson is one stout blade, I would hesitate to use the AFCK for some of the applications my P-SARK has been used for.

Edge geometry - These are two completely different animals. The AFCK is a precision slicer. The Emerson's chisel grind makes fine cutting difficult, but the combination of the grind and blade thickness makes it unbeatable as a hard-use rescue knife. The AFCK is better suited to everyday cutting needs.

Other features - I much prefer the tip-up mode of the Emerson to the Benchmade's tip-down. I love the Emerson wave but I don't care for the disk. The AFCK with Spyderhole deploys extremely fast, almost as fast as the wave. Either one is an excellent choice in a self-defense scenario.

Summary - I carry the Emerson when working because it's a rescue blade first and a SD blade second. The AFCK gets the nod when I'm out of uniform. Both are outstanding choices, it depends largely on personal preferences.
 
ive owned an Emerson for over 2 years know and never once have had a mechanical failure, as Emerson is the number 1 hard use knife in the US, also if the wave is the only thing that you are interested in you can add a wave feature to any Spiderco Knife by using a dremel and making a slight cut in the tip side of the thumb whole, I have seen this technique used effectively many times

Peace
 
Gentlemen, thanks for all your advice. I have placed an order and am now waiting to get the piece.
 
OK, so I have been playing with the new piece for some time.

It's a regular Commander, 2004.

What I liked:

1)Linerlock position--was better than I thought. After reading all the complaints about it, I was expecting the worse, but was pleasantly surprised. First, the liners weren't as thin as I thought. Next the lockup was OK. The piece NIB had the liner just barely fully on left side of the tang(which made me worry that it would under-engage and slip off back to the not-engaged position), but after a few hundred hard(and probably abusive) openings, the liner migrated more towards the centre of the tang, but still remains correctly on the left side. Now when I open the piece softly, the liner stays on the left half, but deep enough not to cause worry about non-engagement. When I open the piece hard, it sticks in the centre, but with a left bias. I don't feel that it will over-engage to the right. IMHO, this is acceptable behaviour for a linerlock.

2)Liner stickiness--they say titanium galls to steel and the liner sticks to the tang, more than steel liners, IMO. In all the hundreds of hard and soft openings, never did I have an engagement that didn't feel OK. In fact, it was actually a pain to disengage the liner, because it sticks so hard, it's wearing out my thumb. So it feels reasonably secure. I remember Esav saying that he had to use two hands to disengage the liner, now I understand.

3)The serrations--were not as bad as I expected. I thought they would be worse than spydie or BM serrations but they aren't that bad, big enough to sharp up, and not small-toothed enough to make me worried about breakage.
I used the comm to slice up some garden plants and it seemed to work OK.

4)Waving--I put on a pair of old trousers to fool around with the wave, and after some uncontrolled openings, managed to get it consistent, controlled and smooth. Had to take off and bend up the clip first, so that the piece pulled easy from the pocket. The wave didn't destroy my trousers as badly as I thought it would. The trick is to press the hook into the join of the pocket and have a smooth horizontal/downwards pull. Don't pull up or the hook might miss. I also had to get used to the disc opener, and learn how to draw the piece w/o waving it open, but everything seemed comfortable after one night of fooling around. To draw it closed, I pull it forwards and up, curling my last fingers around the blade to ensure it is closed as it comes out. Then I up-end the piece and do the normal thumb opening.

5)Easy disassembly--I really like this feature. When I got the piece, I immediately broke it down and pressed this and bent that. Was easy to break down and looks like it will be easy to customize if I want to.

6)Big pivot screw--Is easy to tighten or loosen with simple tools.

7)Utility use--I thought the Commander would not be as good at utility chores as my AFCKs, but even though it does not have the finger-shelf to choke up on the blade, you can actually do the same, by putting your index on the big curve of the pivot end, but you need to be careful of your finger slipping onto the edge. I did it and didn't have any problems.

8)Handle is more rigid--I don't own earlier comms, but I've handled them and I never liked the 2G ones. This 3G(from 2002) is much better built, it has that big spacer to make the handle more rigid and a bigger stop pin. The swedge on the back of the blade looked better, this 3G comm doesn't have it, but I can live w/o it. So far, I don't have the worry(about the lock failing) that I always had when I was handling the pre-2002(2G) comms. I haven't handled a 98(1G) comm, so I can't comment.

9)Fit and finish--Was acceptable, perhaps because I already knew what to expect. Better than I thought, but not as good as a BM or even a spydie for that price or lower. But I didn't buy the comm for fit and finish.

What I did not like:

1)Price--I paid about US$200(incldg shipping to SEAsia). What to do, if you like the design, you pay EKI's price. I would have been happier at US$150, that would be value for money to me, for a knife like this.

2)Nylon washers--I expected metal, but they seem to work OK. Being "soft" maybe allows the pivot to be tighter? Maybe I should replace them. When the blade moves, it feels like I'm opening an FRN spydie.

In short, I'm OK with the knife, and maybe it has something to do with having the right expectations before getting it.

Thanks for all your advice and comments.
 
OK, after a few more hundred waves, the liner has migrated mostly to the centre and a few times, it went to the right, when I waved the piece too hard. The liner also seems to bounce about during the the wave, so it ends up sometimes in the centre, sometimes on the left, sometimes on the right.

Lockup still feels stable, even when the liner lands to the right. In any case, I would rather the liner fail thro over-engagement, rather than under-engagement. That's because, as we all know, if the liner over-engages and slides off the right side of the tang, it will probably still block the blade from closing, which may save your fingers. If it under-engages, then the blade will close(on your fingers).

Maybe I will email EKI and ask them if I need to do anything about this.....once again, within the parameter of expectations.
 
After one more day of fooling around with the Comm, I've fixed the problem.

Seems that when I disassembled the piece and was fooling with the liners to get a stronger detent(for keeping the blade closed), I must have bent the liner too much, until it went curved. This made it over-engage the tang, and it looked curved, too, but I didn't understand the significance of it.

I straightened back the liner and now the liner stays well on the left side for all hard and soft openings. It also seems to "gall" less, when the liner was curved, it galled really hard to the tang and it was killing my thumb to disengage it.

Now it is OK........for the moment. However, I must say, I really like that you can disassemble the knife and fool around with it. That alone, to me, is worth the extra cost of the knife.
 
SYK said:
However, I must say, I really like that you can disassemble the knife and fool around with it. That alone, to me, is worth the extra cost of the knife.
Click to expand...
If you think that's cool, wait until you actually wear out the liner after a year or two and send it back to the EKI factory.

Two weeks later, $15 less, and you'll have a refurbed EKI -- new liners, new screws, new edge, possibly new clip, and totally cleaned up.

That's why I like EKI's... the CS. :)

-j
 
Thanks for your comments, biogon. If that is the case, then the US$200 is a fair price for the piece, it might even be cheap.

If only it had a more robust lock, if would be great, IMHO. However, if it had anything except a linerlock, we might not be able to disassemble and customize it so easily, eh?

Maybe I should get one of the semi-customs, like the 5-year Comm. Maybe that will have thicker liners.
 
After cutting up more stuff(plants, cardboard) with the Comm, I have noticed more things. I knew the edge of the Comm would be thick, but it's much thicker than my flat-ground spydies. But I am OK with that, since that's the way EKI sees its blades.....as unbreakable, but losing out in thin-edgeness to others.

I also realize the function of the second detent in the non-bending liner, it's not really to hold the blade closed, but also to brace the tang against the liner, so that when the blade twists, the tang doesn't slip away from the liner, causing under-engagement. I've been trying to get the liner to slip off the tang by twisting the blade and handle and have not been able to do it.

The handle is quite rigid, much more than my AFCKs, but if the washers were replaced with metal ones, I think there would be even less blade movement.

Next, I'm learning that you need to keep the pivot quite tight to reduce the chance of the liner slipping(due to movement between tang and handle parts). I use my thumbnail to tighten the pivot, just to the point where it won't turn anymore via thumbnail. Or else I tighten via screwdriver unless the blade can't open, then just give it one-eight of a turn back. This is loose enough to allow the wave, but tight enough so there's no movement of the blade against the handle parts.

Next lubing......when I added lube, the liner actually engaged even more, probably because it was able to slip in deeper up the liner ramp before getting stuck. The lube doesn't seem to affect the galling much.

I'm also starting to see the good points of having total disassembly.....the other time I sliced up a roasted pig with my axis AFCK, and I couldn't get the pig smell and lard out of it for weeks after that.

Next pig will be done with the Comm. Let's see how the thick edge fares, I've already touched it up with a grey spydie stick, for a rough edge.
 
SYK said:
Next pig will be done with the Comm. Let's see how the thick edge fares, I've already touched it up with a grey spydie stick, for a rough edge.
Click to expand...

It's not just a thick edge -- the final edge angle is usually very steep. It's often around 50+ degrees, which equates to around 25-30 per side on a v-edged design. I tend to prefer the final edge around 20-21 for good slicing.

I find that lowering the edge angle to about 40-45 degrees improves EKI slicing ability tremendously. The problem is that it takes FOREVER on any kind of sharpening system. With a diamond hone it often took 3-5 hours; with the EdgePro, it still takes about 30 minutes.

-j
 
Thanks for the info, biogon. I think I will leave the re-edging for later, and live with factory edge for the moment.
 
I don't get all this talk about loose lockup on EKI knives. Mine was a little loose when it got to me from the factory, a half turn of the pivot screw fixed all that.

I've found that with the washers that Emerson uses, you can tighten down the pivot to remove all bladeplay and then just open and close the thing a few times and the action smooths out.

If your EKI is not tight, I think you can make it so by a little fussing w/ the pivot.
 
biogon said:
If you think that's cool, wait until you actually wear out the liner after a year or two and send it back to the EKI factory.

Two weeks later, $15 less, and you'll have a refurbed EKI -- new liners, new screws, new edge, possibly new clip, and totally cleaned up.

That's why I like EKI's... the CS. :)

-j
Click to expand...

Absolutely. The CS is top notch.
 
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