Newbie knife design

[futureboy]

Hi folks, total newbie here!

I've been planning on getting into knife making for a while, and finally got around to getting some 3/16" thick O1 steel to try it out.

Ultimately, I'd like to try my hand at forging, but this first one will just be a grinder+file job.

Here's the design I mocked up in Sketchup:

Blade length is about 5.25"
Handle will be micarta.

It's intended as a full tang general camping knife. It will be used to baton and split wood for campfires.
Not sure about the jimping, but it seems to help with striking fire steel, which this one will do.

Some design features I was aiming for were:
- balance/symmetry/parallels with certain lines (spine & blade edge, grind line & front end of handle, top & bottom edges of handle)
- similar radii on handle end curves

The edge curve will be more gradual where the belly meets the straight - it just came out a bit sharp in Sketchup.

Please give me your suggestions!
This is my first time, so I'd really like to hear what some more experienced bladesmiths have to say.

 

[Justin Schmidt]

For a first one its pretty good. I'd take the tip of the blade down a bit for more of a drop point but just my opinion. What equipment do you have to make it? What about heat treating?

 

[futureboy]

For a first one its pretty good. I'd take the tip of the blade down a bit for more of a drop point but just my opinion. What equipment do you have to make it? What about heat treating?

Thanks, Valknut!

Yeah, I might drop the tip a bit while still maintaining the parallel lines of the spine and straight edge past the belly curve.
The initial reason I wanted to keep the spine completely straight was to ensure easy and secure batoning.
Most of the design aspects are aimed at either minimalism or function, preferably both.

My equipment is quite limited at this time:
- angle grinder w/ various discs
- hand-held belt sander, which has been rigged up in a vise for vertical grinding
- files & rasps

I'd like to get one of those small grinder+belt sander combo deals.

Heat treating will be done with a blow-torch for now. From what I'm reading online, hardening and tempering O1 is relatively easy.

I'm planning on making a either simple blow-dryer coal forge in a small grill with some castable refractory cement, or getting a few fire bricks and making a small gas forge, whichever is easier.

 

[futureboy]

Definitely going to do a drop point - thanks again Valknut!

 

[Justin Schmidt]

I'd jump on craigslist and find a craftsman 2x42 or harbor freight 1x30. You can get good belts for either and alot of guys start out with those. Also, I'd search on here dir how to build a 2 brick forge. It's simple and cheap to build and will be much better than just a blow torch.

 

[Randy3000]

Add a knot at the belly/straight on your bspline curve and it will smooth out. If it messes the profile up then you need more poles.

 

[futureboy]

Add a knot at the belly/straight on your bspline curve and it will smooth out. If it messes the profile up then you need more poles.

Do you mean in Sketchup? I'm not sure I follow.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Overall, the second drawing is pretty good. The piece of metal sticking out past the edge after the choil should be at the same level as the edge. Maybe round the top of the handle butt a tad more.

The jimping on the spine really is useless and just adds a place where the blade could break. I would leave it off, or just make small "V" cuts done with a tri-square file. They don't need to go in more than.010" to be deep enough for traction on the thumb.

Even with the thong hole (thong holes also pretty much useless, too) you should space the two rivets evenly on the handle (ignore the thong tube when marking them) or use three evenly spaces rivets and eliminate the thong tube ( which is what I would do).

 

[Randy3000]

Do you mean in Sketchup? I'm not sure I follow.

Sorry, i said add knot when i should have said remove (no repeated knots). i assume sketchup is using bspline or bezier curves.

 

[futureboy]

Overall, the second drawing is pretty good. The piece of metal sticking out past the edge after the choil should be at the same level as the edge. Maybe round the top of the handle butt a tad more.

The jimping on the spine really is useless and just adds a place where the blade could break. I would leave it off, or just make small "V" cuts done with a tri-square file. They don't need to go in more than.010" to be deep enough for traction on the thumb.

Even with the thong hole (thong holes also pretty much useless, too) you should space the two rivets evenly on the handle (ignore the thong tube when marking them) or use three evenly spaces rivets and eliminate the thong tube ( which is what I would do).

Thank you, Stacy!
Could you clarify why the front quillon should be in line with the edge? Is this for some function or you think it looks better?

The handle shape will be subject to change, since I intend to leave it a bit big and work it down to where it's comfortable. The radius of the upper handle butt is intended to match that of the lower, while the inside curve radius of the rear quillon matches the front quillon.

Regarding the jimping, I guess I don't forsee this knife taking abuse sufficient to break a 3/16 thick blade. But your recommendation for milder cuts on the jimping makes sense - it would obviously weaken the blade less than deeper cuts while still helping with striking firesteel.

Lanyard hole is a must for me, I've had one on my last couple camping knives, and use them all time! I do prefer the look of two even pins and the lanyard hole in the corner, though.

Sorry, i said add knot when i should have said remove (no repeated knots). i assume sketchup is using bspline or bezier curves.

Sketchup, at least the online version, doesn't make it easy to modify curves like a vector graphics program does. I like it because it's very intuitive and quick to use for mockups. My design process is to start by drawing in pencil and refining the design ideas, finding what looks good, and then moving to Sketchup to quickly put those design ideas into a straight and accurate version. Incidentally, the first pencil version of this design had a drop tip...

 

[SV-97]

The design looks good to me, though the handle looks a bit neutral and blocky to me. But if you like it like that I don't see a reason to change it I'd round the butt off a bit more, as well as round the left- and lowermost corner of the handle off a bit to avoid having a hotspot there.

But I really made this comment to tell you about Fusion 360 it's a professional CAD Software that's fairly easy to get into (and free to use) and makes it easier to change details and play around with the design. If you want to you can bring the whole thing into 3D to see how it can look at the end

 

[futureboy]

The design looks good to me, though the handle looks a bit neutral and blocky to me. But if you like it like that I don't see a reason to change it

Hehe, to a minimalist such as myself, words like "neutral" and "blocky" are music to the ears...

I'd round the butt off a bit more

I wanted to keep the same radius on both corners of the butt, with a nice flat area for pommelling.

as well as round the left- and lowermost corner of the handle off a bit to avoid having a hotspot there.

Yeah, I think I'll do that. I've been handling the O1 bar, and the 90° corners are not nice to grab at.

But I really made this comment to tell you about Fusion 360 it's a professional CAD Software that's fairly easy to get into (and free to use) and makes it easier to change details and play around with the design. If you want to you can bring the whole thing into 3D to see how it can look at the end

I'll give that a try, although I've been really impressed with how intuitive Sketchup is. It it primarily used for 3D modelling, as it was originally developed by Google for use in creating 3D buildings for Google Earth.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

If you use the lanyard, then it is good. Most knives with the tube hole never see a lanyard.

The "quillion" sticking out stops the blade from having a full cut against a flat object. If you lay a ruler from the bottom of your projection to the edge it will show all the edge that will not contact the cut. It also gets in the way in sharpening. The other big thing is that it snags stuff. It will make skinning and cutting up meat more difficult.

The purpose of the choil is to define the end of the sharp part of the blade. It also keeps the plunge from walking back in repeated sharpening. It doesn't need or want the projection.

Look at some knives from the bigger makers and you will rarely ... if ever ... see that projection.
You regularly see the opposite, where the ricasso steps up from the edge a bit.

 

[Drew Riley]

What's the length of the handle? Seems like it might be a little on the short side if the blade is only 5.5".

 

[futureboy]

The "quillion" sticking out stops the blade from having a full cut against a flat object. If you lay a ruler from the bottom of your projection to the edge it will show all the edge that will not contact the cut.

I had considered that, but since it's not often going to be used on a chopping block, not really an issue.

It also gets in the way in sharpening.

This I had not considered - duh, how will you sharpen it? I think widening the choil so that the blade starts a bit further away from the quillon would improve this. For sharpening in the field I use a small hand-held two-sided stone, so a bigger choil would help make placing the blade on the stone less fidgety.

Look at some knives from the bigger makers and you will rarely ... if ever ... see that projection.

I don't know, man, a lot of camping knives I've seen have the quillon below the edge. Here's just one site reviewing a bunch, and most of them have it that way (bigger choils, tho). I think it increases safety.

What's the length of the handle? Seems like it might be a little on the short side if the blade is only 5.5".

Overall it's about 4.25". It's fit to allow the width of all four fingers with a clenched fist between the start of the curve on the front and rear quillons. I might make a mock-up of the handle in pine before I cut the steel to make sure it's a comfortable and sturdy grip. Does anyone else do that?

 

[jll346]

When drawing up a new knife. I always cut one out of cardboard. Obviously far from exact. But, it gives me little ideas how it feels in hand. Can judge if handle is to short/long, etc. Make necessary changes if needed and cut another one out and check. Better than cutting your knife steel and it not working.

 

[Randy3000]

I am with Stacy about no projection at the choil. I make slipjoint folding knives, and recently starting making my master blades like that. Now on a slipjoint, a projection is almost necessary, and even has a name, "kick". But it is possible to eliminate it entirely with many patterns and it is nice. As for safety, the stated intended use of the knife never mentioned stabbing tasks, and even so, without the projection, there is enough material i think to keep the hand from sliding up.

 

[futureboy]

When drawing up a new knife. I always cut one out of cardboard. Obviously far from exact. But, it gives me little ideas how it feels in hand. Can judge if handle is to short/long, etc. Make necessary changes if needed and cut another one out and check. Better than cutting your knife steel and it not working.

That's a good idea, and less work than making a mock-up out of wood. Thanks! I've got some foam core board I can use.

I am with Stacy about no projection at the choil. I make slipjoint folding knives, and recently starting making my master blades like that. Now on a slipjoint, a projection is almost necessary, and even has a name, "kick". But it is possible to eliminate it entirely with many patterns and it is nice. As for safety, the stated intended use of the knife never mentioned stabbing tasks, and even so, without the projection, there is enough material i think to keep the hand from sliding up.

Yeah, I just like the look of it, and feel it does add safety - not only to keep hand from sliding into blade, but also to provide a block from the other direction. I think that's why most survival/camping knives I've seen have them.
I can always grind it off if I find that it causes issues.

Current revision: