Newbie needs help picking a bomb-proof fixed blade

[Sep]

This has all been VERY helpful guys. Edgyone, your post was really great too! You even put things in CPF terms for me... thank you!

Seems like Busse is like the cream of the crop brand around these parts. Kinda like Surefire but even more so because they are custom built and more rare.

So let me get this straight... D2 steel would be super tough and hold it's edge very well, but the downside is that it's hard to sharpen (especially out in the field). Also, what is the corrosion resistance of D2?

So far my experience on BladeForums has been such a joy... thanks everyone!

p.s. My credit card cries enough already with my flashlight collecting... now I may be getting into knives... my wife is gonna kill me. LOL

Just a little more explanation: the term "hardness" and "toughness" for steel are two distinct concepts. While D2 is pretty hard, it's not the toughest steel out there. Does it mean it can't be made tough? Absolutely not, but I think it requires higher heat treatment skill & better quality control, which means you need to stick with reputable makers.

Well, since heat treatment is about as important as steel material, you need to stick with reputable makers in any case.

Spyderco has an excellent page on common blade steel terminologies:
http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/steel.php

Also check out Crucible's chemistries & properties comparison page. Very useful.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/prodbyapp/plastics/plastchemtbl.html

 

[Sep]

I own a Busse SAR5, but I also own a Fallkniven S1 and an Ontario RAT 5. I paid $260 for the Busse, $100 for the Fallkniven and $85 for the RAT. My personal opinion is that the I would be just as happy going into the woods with a Fallkniven F1 or S1 as I would with the Busse.

Don't get me wrong: I think my Busse is a great knife, but the difference in cost is probably greater than the difference in performance between a Busse and a knife like the S1. Unless you just really want to spend the extra money (and you find yourself in the most extreme of circumstances) then I'm not sure you really need a Busse. But I also know that need often has nothing to do with it

Absolutely true. When it comes to high-end quality for ANY product (not just knives), the performance improvement over medium-grade product is less than the difference in price. Far less.

Since the original poster asked for the best, then the honest answer is Busse. But if he's asking for the highest bang for the buck with adequate quality, the answer would be different.

 

[rpn]

+1 for rat products (I like their molle sheath system too), and I like the Bussekin as well.I don't have any Busses, but have a number of Swamp Rats and Scrap Yards. Just got a Yard Keeper (tan) for a $100 bucks and know it's just about bomb proof!

 

[ron_m80]

Randall Knives Model #14

 

[rpn]

or there's a swamp rat chopweiler on the forum now, for me, that is the survival size, it will do it all well enough to survive if/when the shtf

also, sometimes I think you need to have something in hand to know. I LOVE my rat RC3, but the rc4 killed my hand...why???? No idea, but it went to the forum, all my swamp rats feel...perfect!

 

[flashlife]

Sorry to be an 'old geezer' here, but 1095 and an oily rag are all you need.
When you're in the field, just wipe the blade down every few days.
For storage, just wipe the blade, then wrap it with the rag.

'Nuf said.

 

[dawsonbob]

Sorry to be an 'old geezer' here, but 1095 and an oily rag are all you need.
When you're in the field, just wipe the blade down every few days.
For storage, just wipe the blade, then wrap it with the rag.

'Nuf said.

I'm with flashlife here. 1095 and an oily rag is all you really need. For real world use I'll stack a $60 Becker BK-2 and an oily rag up against a $300 Busse anytime. Sure, Infi is great steel, but on a cost vs use basis, what do you really need?

 

[lotus1972]

I'm with flashlife here. 1095 and an oily rag is all you really need. For real world use I'll stack a $60 Becker BK-2 and an oily rag up against a $300 Busse anytime. Sure, Infi is great steel, but on a cost vs use basis, what do you really need?

If your Becker breaks your outa luck. They don't make them anymore and they have no replacements. If your Busse breaks for any reason they have rock solid warranty for life. BUT more to the point on cost versus use, has anyone here ever seen a broken Busse?

 

[elkins45]

I'm with flashlife here. 1095 and an oily rag is all you really need. For real world use I'll stack a $60 Becker BK-2 and an oily rag up against a $300 Busse anytime. Sure, Infi is great steel, but on a cost vs use basis, what do you really need?

To read some of the dialogue among BF members (myself included) about blade toughness, you would think the wilderness is filled with the weathered bones of dead guys whose skeletal hands are wrapped around the handle of a knife with the blade snapped off at the hilt! I'm not sure that's the case.

Anybody ever have a knife catastrophically fail while doing a wilderness or survival task, even an extreme one? I haven't, nor do I know anyone who has.

What do you really need, as opposed to what would be cool to have? Those are two different questions. All most of us probably really need is a good small stockman and a steak knife , but don't tell that to my wife!

 

[kgd]

If your Becker breaks your outa luck. They don't make them anymore and they have no replacements. If your Busse breaks for any reason they have rock solid warranty for life. BUT more to the point on cost versus use, has anyone here ever seen a broken Busse?

Yes - Kabar makes Becker's now so you can replace your becker should it break. Also the Rat Cutlery provides the same warranty as Busse - lifetime replacement of the knife, no questions asked. In Jeff Randall's words 'We just asked that you return the knife in good conscience, and we'll replace it'.

Take heart in what Elkin said. Knives have been known to break under strain and I have seen a few examples of broken blades on the forums posted in the last few years. Sometimes you get a blade that is just flawed in its heat treat, which makes rigorous testing of the knife before you need to use it in the woods a good idea (and fun thing to do).

That said there are a lot of mall ninja types around here who talk tough and demand 0.25" chunks of steel so they can pose with them with their biggest badest snarl in front of their webcams, dressed out in their wallmart BDU's. Most of us who actually use our knives in the W&SS subforum tend to prefer 1/8" to 3/16" thickness' for mid-sized knives and 3/32" thickness for smaller cutting knives. Yes - we in W&SS like to use our knives for actual wilderness typish things!

 

[dawsonbob]

If your Becker breaks your outa luck. They don't make them anymore and they have no replacements. If your Busse breaks for any reason they have rock solid warranty for life. BUT more to the point on cost versus use, has anyone here ever seen a broken Busse?

As KGD pointed out, Beckers are now made by Ka-Bar from 1095 CorVan steel, and they're readily available. The warranty from Ka-Bar is very good in its own right and, according to Ethan Becker, if it breaks in normal usage, they'll replace it. Mr. Becker considers chopping and batoning normal usage. He doesn't consider locking it up in a vise and pounding on it with a six-pound sledge hammer normal usage, but then again, who would?

And also to the point, have you ever seen a broken BK-2? I haven't.

 

[lotus1972]

As KGD pointed out, Beckers are now made by Ka-Bar from 1095 CorVan steel, and they're readily available. The warranty from Ka-Bar is very good in its own right and, according to Ethan Becker, if it breaks in normal usage, they'll replace it. Mr. Becker considers chopping and batoning normal usage. He doesn't consider locking it up in a vise and pounding on it with a six-pound sledge hammer normal usage, but then again, who would?

And also to the point, have you ever seen a broken BK-2? I haven't.

Ask and you shall receive !

There can be only one. BUSSE

 

[smcclown05]

I skimmed over this thread and didn't see any mention of Ranger knives. I've got an RD-6 and an RD-9 and they will definitely take some abuse. Bark River, RAT, and Fallkniven and Ranger are all favorites of mine. All of these are well built and reasonably priced selections. When it comes down to choosing the exact knife you want, a lot will depend what your intended uses are, what's comfortable, and which knife generally appeals to you

 

[yalskey]

What do you really plan to use it for?
What type of things are you going to be cutting?
What is your perferred blade length?
Perferred handle material?
How are your sharpening skills?

Knifenut1013, thanks for putting that into perspective by translating it into flashoholic lingo for me. Man, I feel like such a newb, but everyone here has been very nice and helpful. More and more I feel like I'm leaning towards that RAT RC-5

To answer your questions Knifenut...

This knife will be in my EDC/BOB Maxpedition backpack I carry everywhere. I have essential survival gear in there and it would be for a survival situation and the occasional camping trip.

Being it's a survival knife, I may be using it for cutting up an animal to eat, or (something that many here may cringe at) using it to cook on a fire as an impromptu cooking utensil, or maybe cutting through wood to make tinder, or cutting down a branch, or chopping, etc. Camping / Survival stuff.

I like knives on the bigger side of things... but maybe not RAMBO big. I'd say between 5 and 7 inches or so... roughly.

I don't really have a strong preference on handle materials... so long as it's got a good solid ergonomic grip, is very tough, and is low-to-no maintenance. I guess that would rule out cord and wood handles.

My sharpening skills are absolute zero. I would need to send it off somewhere to be sharpened.

In other news...

D2 isn't good for impacts like hammering? Wow, I thought that was the best stuff for that. How does it compare to 1095 for impacts?

I think the problem here is that I don't have a good understanding (the way an enthusiast on these forums would understand) all the different pros and cons to the various blade steels. A link to a beginners guide to blade steels would be awesome.

 

[dawsonbob]

Ask and you shall receive !

There can be only one. BUSSE

Hi, Lotus,

That is NOT a BK-2, it's an older Camilus BK-7 (or 9). The BK-2 is a much shorter and much thicker blade. And how did it break? I don't think that was just batoning through a chunk of wood, now was it?

Look, I'm not saying that Busse's aren't tough knives: they are. Are they worth the, in my opinion, exorbitant price? Are they actually better than a Becker BK-2 for my needs? The answer is an emphatic no to both questions.

Your milage may vary.

 

[yalskey]

Spyderco has an excellent page on common blade steel terminologies:
http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/steel.php

Also check out Crucible's chemistries & properties comparison page. Very useful.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/prodbyapp/plastics/plastchemtbl.html

Thank you so much Sep... This is exactly what I needed. I didn't read your post until after my last post.... you had already covered my request. Thanks!

Also... What kind of oil should I use on 1095? Link to a good store?

 

[kgd]

yalskey - well, even the knife nuts can't really keep up with all the steels that keep coming out. But yes, D2 in a large knife used for chopping is considered a bit more brittle then lets say 1095. Again, part of that has to do with the heat treat. Toughness in the steel world refers to the ability of a steel to resist chipping out. On a tough knife, the edge will tend to roll or fold at the site of hard impact, where as a brittle knife will produce chips. The advantage of a tough knife is that the edge can often be restored by steeling it without loosing your metal. A chipped blade has to be sharpended until it reaches the end of the chipping. This usuall takes a lot of time and can involve grinding up a lot of metal depending on the severity of the chip.

In worst case scenarious, a blade may actual snap as outlined in the picture provided above. Now that snapped becker is an unusual example, but sometimes these things do happen. As I mentioned in a previous post, a good thing to do is test your knife at home under pretty harsh conditions like batoning it through some hard wood just to ensure that your knife is up to the tasks you think will encounter. Mark my words that one day, somebody will post here a snapped busse. It will just happen. Saying that it can't happen or will never happen is religion and not logic.

Hey, it sounds like you have some really great gear. Those maxpedition packs are quite excellent and you'll find that all the rat cutlery knives come packaged with molle clips and sheaths that are designed to attach to molle webbing. Now, I'm sounding like I'm pushing RC products, which I don't really necessarily mean to do. A BATAC would look mighty fine on that pack of your too

Why don't you come by and introduce yourself in the Wilderness and Survival Skills subforum which can be accessed under the "community" tab at the top. It sounds as though you have a lot in common with us W&SS regulars. We love to talk about gear, camping and survival situations.

For sharpening, I suggest this is something you try to teach yourself. There are a couple of very good products out there for sharpening v-grinds. This includes the Spyderco Sharpmaker which can be had for about $50. The sharpmaker is respected by most people here on the boards. As a product, what it excels at is maintaining a factory edge. If you keep on top of your knife and sharpen it before it gets completely dull, you would never need another product. The sharpmaker is very easy to use and hold a consistent angle. There are other sharpening methods too, like convex that require a different type of technique. Check out the Maintentance subforum for consulting with the sharpening experts over here.

Good luck on your knife quest!

 

[mnyshrpknvs]

Crusador Forge! VERY heavy duty.

 

[lotus1972]

Hi, Lotus,

That is NOT a BK-2, it's an older Camilus BK-7 (or 9). The BK-2 is a much shorter and much thicker blade. And how did it break? I don't think that was just batoning through a chunk of wood, now was it?

Look, I'm not saying that Busse's aren't tough knives: they are. Are they worth the, in my opinion, exorbitant price? Are they actually better than a Becker BK-2 for my needs? The answer is an emphatic no to both questions.

Your milage may vary.

I'M JUST RAZZING YOU. There are other really tough knives out there. Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works makes very good very strong very stout knives out of 5160. They take a licking and keep on ticking.


T.O.P.S. does very good with 1095 even if their grinds are a little on the thick side.

I have owned an RC-5 and while not anywhere near as comfy as a Busse it was/is a good knife.

The three companies I just mentioned are not gonna put one out of pocket too much either. MMHW can be pricey when new but on the secondary market prices are very reasonable.

 

[yalskey]

kgd - very helpful my friend. Maybe I will wonder over to that sub-forum this weekend sometime. I'm a newb at survival stuff, but it excites me a lot and I'm willing to learn.

Now, if you ask me about flashlights... that a different story altogether.