newbie question on turning a $8 china knife into somethign worth having....

T

theizzardking

Joined
Dec 29, 2012
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hey guys, first question to the forum as search left me at a loss....and to be honest it's kind of stupid.

here's the story:

i picked up one of the t-3 hunters from amazon for a whopping $8, some no name china knock off of the tom baker tracker knife, i really wanted to see if this blade shape was going to be any good for how i use my tools and didn't want to invest the $$$ for one of the real things, so i ordered the cheap one thinking i'd put an edge on it and use 2~3 times to see if the shape was any good for me or not...so at work today i decided it i'd throw it on the rockwell tester and it came back as 66RC, can this be right? doesn't seem likely this no-name $8 Chinese knife would be made from a decent material much less treated to that sort of RC, so i guess that's basically my question, have you guys had good luck just picking up really cheap knives based on nothing but design and been surprised by something like this? i'm just wondering if i need to get the machine shop to recalibrate their equipment or if this sort of things does happen.....it logically just doesn't make sense...for production vs sale price...don;t get me wrong the finish of the knife is crap, massive uneven grind marks, gouges from the tooling and all of the rest...but nothing that can't be fixed easily enough....
 
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I would take a Rockwell test block and check the tester. If the test block checks out, test the blade again. I can not imagine any way the knife is Rc66 if it is steel.
 
doesn't m2 and 1095 with the right heat treat come to rc66?
i mean it is possible... i just don't see how with the price ..... i'll see where the block is and give it another go...
 
could be, i've never used the tester before and had to be shown the correct way, i mentioned to the guy showing me i wanted the RC rating and when it came back as 66 the machinist looked at me and said "that's hard as s***" .... i can't get down there again till the end of the day but am fairly confident in our machinist knowledge as they are making aircraft parts....i'll double check the cone and scale to make sure that's right though as i have no idea what they are setup for, i just wanted to check with you guys if that's right before i go down in the shop and start getting to involved with this....

have you guys ever had a good experience with a cheapo knife, you know besides the likes of mora and the rest....don;t get me wrong i'm with you guys.... it just doesn't make sense to me that could be right and it's starting to sound like you guys suspect the testing as well, when i get a chance i'll check it out, i was just wondering mainly if something like this EVER happens...i do have a nice big dent in the blade now though as i should...
 
^
That

A file won't touch HRC66.

A damaged penetrator can give a high hardness reading.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
^
That

A file won't touch HRC66.

A damaged penetrator can give a high hardness reading.
Click to expand...

thanks for the heads up! i would have thought the opposite? checked the tip real quick and it was labeled as "c" and the scale on the front was labeled as c also, paper note attached says "reads in B and c only".....
i'm thinking it's truly set up for C scale but there might be an issue with the equipment, i'll check the tip for damage and test again on a known material for confirmation, TBH, i don't mind running this blade through as many times as needed, it was only $8, if it is what it appears to be I'll simply buy another, at very least i'm getting a good crash course in the testing equipment and troubleshooting thanks to you guys! cheers!
 
Just to answer theizardking:
1095, many high alloy steels, and quite a few others will reach Rc 65-66 as quenched. But in that state they are just about as brittle as glass.
After temper, these steels can be left in the Rc 62-63 range on fine slicers, but working blades are taken to Rc 58-59, and many Chinese/Pakistani blades are as low as Rc 54.

If they made a usable knife out of it and put an edge on for $8, it isn't going to be Rc66.

There are a few exotic steels that can reach Rc66 and be used, but they cost about $100-$200 per blade for the raw bar.
 
There's something screwy with the testing.

bladsmth said:
There are a few exotic steels that can reach Rc66 and be used, but they cost about $100-$200 per blade for the raw bar.
Click to expand...

Yup. To get 66Rc after proper quenching and tempering, you're definitely gonna spend more than $8 for a completed knife, no matter how crudely it's ground and finished. More like $8 per linear half-inch on the barstock, and that would be a bargain.
 
bladsmth said:
Just to answer theizardking:
1095, many high alloy steels, and quite a few others will reach Rc 65-66 as quenched. But in that state they are just about as brittle as glass.
After temper, these steels can be left in the Rc 62-63 range on fine slicers, but working blades are taken to Rc 58-59, and many Chinese/Pakistani blades are as low as Rc 54.

If they made a usable knife out of it and put an edge on for $8, it isn't going to be Rc66.

There are a few exotic steels that can reach Rc66 and be used, but they cost about $100-$200 per blade for the raw bar.
Click to expand...

What are the names of these exotic steel?
 
Maybe the manufacturer didn't bother to temper the steel. If that was the case it'd be a neat opportunity to bring it down to a good hardness rather than having the typical soft stuff that comes in cheap knives.
 
If the steel was untempered it would snap like glass at Rc66. That, and it is unlikely any steel used in an $8 knife would be the type to quench at Rc66.

Rc66 is the upper theoretical limit for 1095 in a water quench. Anyone who has done this knows that it wouldn't work commercially. If you even look at the blade wrong, or leave it sitting undisturbed for a day, it will crack all by itself....if it survived the quench in the first place.
Any side pressure or attempt to finish an untempered 1095 blade at Rc66, would end up in pieces.
 
You can solve this case in ten seconds. Why not just take another knife of relative known hardness and try to scratch it and vice versa. I never do the file test, I usually just pull out a pocket knife and see which one bites the other one.
Since my heat treat ability sucks with a torch and bucket, after quench I drag a line with the point of my pocket knife all the way down the edge. If it bites anywhere I know I've failed and need to try again.
 
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