Newbie Question: Which belts to get? And all other advice welcome to a newbie.

worldwood

worldwood

Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
15,381
First ill start by saying i have never made a knife, never used a grinder, and have no idea what im doing LMAO.. Im not trying to be a world famous knife seller or anything, im just wanting to learn to make knives for myself. Im a disabled veteran and stay at home father. Next Monday my youngest starts school and i will have lots of time during the week to try ad keep myself busy. I figure this wold be a great way to keep busy as i have a huge passion for knives.

That being said..... Im going to be ordering a Craftsman 2x42 on thursday, the local store doesnt have them in stock within a 50 mile radius so ordering is my option. But before i make a mistake and buy the wrong belts i figured id ask you guys.

Which belts should i get and how many will i need to start? Which grits, brand, material?? I have done quite a bit of reading and watching youtube videos in the last few days and all the information is quite overwhelming.

Another question i have is, in the videos when the guys are dunking the knives while grinding to keep them cool, are they just dunking them in water? Or something else?

This week i have a HF drill press, good bits, Tap Magic oil, vise, C-clamps, hacksaw, metal cutting blades, Nicholson file set, file card, ergo file handle, full face mask, some 1/8" O1 steel and gloves being delivered. I have more than maxed my budget out already once i get the grinder and belts so anything else i may need will have to wait a while.

Any advice welcome, and i appreciate any and all help offered!

Thanks!
 
You're gonna want ceramic belts. Aluminum oxide belts may look appealing because they're a considerable amount less expensive, but they last no where near as long as the ceramics. If I was you I'd start out by getting some 50-60gr ceramic belts for hogging off the majority of metal and then some higher grit belts for finishing. I'd say stick with 120-220 grit belts for finish work. Tru-grit is where I get my belts from.

I use the same grinder and 3600rpms is very fast and very unforgiving. Use a light touch when grinding on it. You can go up into the higher grit belts but for starting you might just want to hand sand blades for the final finish. In my experience that helps even out lines after grinding on a high speed machine like that. Look up Nick Wheeler's video on hand sanding. The guy is a saint for all he contributes to the knifemaking community and his youtube videos are VERY informative.

As far as dipping blades in water while grinding. When grinding preheat treatment the only reason you would need to dip a blade would be to keep it cool so it doesn't burn your hands. Th heat generated from grinding has no effect on the structural integrity of the metal since it hasn't been heat treated. I use a push stick and don't really bother dipping pre-heat treat. Now, post heat treat you're gonna have to be VERY careful to not let the blade get too hot. Use a VERY light touch and dip after each pass. I also would make quicker passes so the belt doesn't dwell on the metal to long and generate a ton of heat. Again, at 3600rpms, things heat up REAL fast.

You might also look into getting a pyroceramic glass platen for your metal platen. It helps a lot. There's also an easy mod you can do to eliminate the need to remove the tool rest for belt changes. I'll try and snap a pic of my mod'd grinder later to illustrate.
 
If it is any help, you should get 3-4 blades from a belt before it pretty dull, so order a couple of each unless you going to grind alot.

Add a little soap to the quench water to push the grinding dust to the bottom, other than that, just water.
 
Thank you both for the great information!

OK so im looking at the tru-grit site and i see the ceramic belts for 2x42 in grits 36, 60, 80, and 120. I dont see a 220 in this size for ceramic, but i do see it for Aluminum Oxide. Also it looks like to me the aluminum oxide belts are a bit MORE expensive than ceramics? Its less than a dollar difference though so i dont mind getting either one, id prefer the better belt.

Should i go from 60 to 80 then 120, or just 60 to 120? And are the Norton blaze plus ceramic worth the increased price? They are almost 3 times the price of the Merit ceramics, but will they last 3 times as long? I only see 60 and 120 grit for those though.

I will try and get a few in each grit to start. I will not be doing a whole lot of knives starting off. I want to go really slow and learn the right way even if it takes WAY longer to complete a blade. More speed will come with more experience im sure, but for now im more concerned with getting things right.

Thanks again to both of you guys for the help!!
 
Another question i forgot to ask,

JG, you mention getting a pyroceramic glass platen. I see some at a knife maker website. Is there a certain sized one i need to get for the 2x42?

And then do i just JB weld it to the platen thats on the 2x42 already or is there something else i need to do?

Thanks again everyone!
 
Don't even bother with AO belts. I do my handle shaping on the same kind of ceramic belts I use for steel.

Don't go hog-wild on ordering every possible grit of belts. KISS. You don't need 'em all; it's a waste of money, time spent, and inventory space.

Here's what I use:

36-grit for heavy hogging. This is optional... if you have some way to cut your profiles sort-of-close to final shape, you don't need 'em.
50 or 60-grit for cleaning up profiles and setting bevels... that'll get you about 90% done to where it looks pretty much like a knife.
120-280-grit (A160-A65 is basically the same size grits - whichever you find the best deal on... anything in that range will work fine for this step as long as it's a quality belt) ... for cleaning up the deep scratches left by the previous grits. This will get you to about 98.5% done.
400-grit or A45 for cleaning that up one step further. Lots of makers stop right there and leave a basic machine-satin "belt finish" on their blades. Sometimes I go one more step and follow that with a few passes on a 600/A30.

Never move up to a finer grit until you're happy with what you've got at the previous step. When you think you've got it right at one step, hand-sand the blade just a couple dozen strokes lengthwise with 100 or 220-grit paper with a hard backing... any dips, divots or foul-ups will stick out like a sore thumb and you'll see whether or not you need to go over it again on the grinder (and you probably will, at least once). Trust me, that's a lot easier and faster in the long run than getting all the way up to 400 or 600 and then trying to chase away a nasty 50-grit scratch.

Remember, there's no such thing as "removing a scratch". You have to remove everything else around the scratch and literally bring the whole surface down to the bottom of it. So don't focus on one little area of the blade that has an "oops" on it... you'll just end up with another divot. Keep thinking of the blade as, and working towards getting it to be, one even surface.

After that, it's all optional. You may want a Scotch-Bright belt to use after the 400/A45; that kind of finish looks good on a hard-use knife and customers like it because it's not too shiny and it doesn't show scratches from use. You can get polishing belts all the way up to single-digit microns, but I use them mostly for sharpening. When I want a finer finish, I get the blade as clean, even and straight as I can on A45/400 belts, and drop back to 220-grit sandpaper and start hand-sanding.
 
Last edited:
worldwood said:
I found plenty of info on mounting the platen!
Click to expand...

I put my pyro-ceram platen liner on just with JB-weld (no bolts or shelf or anything else) and have ground hundreds of blades on it without a problem. YMMV. If you do this an it slides off, shatters and kills you, don't sue me :D
 
james terrio said:
Don't even bother with AO belts. I do my handle shaping on the same kind of ceramic belts I use for steel.

Don't go hog-wild on ordering every possible grit of belts. KISS. You don't need 'em all; it's a waste of money, time spent, and inventory space.

Here's what I use:

36-grit for heavy hogging. This is optional... if you have some way to cut your profiles sort-of-close to final shape, you don't need 'em.
50 or 60-grit for cleaning up profiles and setting bevels... that'll get you about 90% done to where it looks pretty much like a knife.
120-280-grit (A160-A65 is basically the same size grits - whichever you find the best deal on... anything in that range will work fine for this step as long as it's a quality belt) ... for cleaning up the deep scratches left by the previous grits. This will get you to about 98.5% done.
400-grit or A45 for cleaning that up one step further. Lots of makers stop right there and leave a basic machine-satin "belt finish" on their blades. Sometimes I go one more step and follow that with a few passes on a 600/A30.

Never move up to a finer grit until you're happy with what you've got at the previous step. When you think you've got it right at one step, hand-sand the blade just a couple dozen strokes lengthwise with 100 or 220-grit paper with a hard backing... any dips, divots or foul-ups will stick out like a sore thumb and you'll see whether or not you need to go over it again on the grinder (and you probably will, at least once). Trust me, that's a lot easier and faster in the long run than getting all the way up to 400 or 600 and then trying to chase away a nasty 50-grit scratch.

Remember, there's no such thing as "removing a scratch". You have to remove everything else around the scratch and literally bring the whole surface down to the bottom of it. So don't focus on one little area of the blade that has an "oops" on it... you'll just end up with another divot. Keep thinking of the blade as, and working towards getting it to be, one even surface.

After that, it's all optional. You may want a Scotch-Bright belt to use after the 400/A45; that kind of finish looks good on a hard-use knife and customers like it because it's not too shiny and it doesn't show scratches from use. You can get polishing belts all the way up to single-digit microns, but I use them mostly for sharpening. When I want a finer finish, I get the blade as clean, even and straight as I can on A45/400 belts, and drop back to 220-grit sandpaper and start hand-sanding.
Click to expand...

Mr. Terrio,

Thanks for the extremely informative post!
 
Thank you very much for all the info James, that helps a bunch!

Im not seeing anything over 120 grit on tru-grits site for ceramic. At least not in the size 2x42. Are the Trizact Aluminum Oxide "Gator" belts good for metal? Or is that the same basically as the regular AO? There seem to be more selection in grits with the gators. Also cost a bit more but i can handle it if they are good belts.

So i take it 36 grit to get the basic shape and removing the most metal, 60 grit for putting the bevels on, and 120 grit for the "clean-up" and then 400 grit for finishing work. Then hand sanding if i want it any finer of a finish.... Take it slow with each one and dont change grits until im happy with where its at. Im sure its easier said than done but i look forward to the challenge!!

Thanks again James for the time you spend helping out and sharing your knowledge!!
 
@Worldwood, trust me, it sounds much easier than it really is. I made the mistake of grinding the initial bevels with a 36grit blaze belt, which leaves some deep scratches if you don't know what you are doing (which is me). You're starting out just like me and my best advice is take it slow, be safe (lots of danger with these tools) and take it slow, did I say that already? I would also pick up some Dykem layout dye, which will be very useful for scribing your profile on the bar stock. You could use sharpie, but it rubs off far too easy.
 
worldwood said:
Are the Trizact Aluminum Oxide "Gator" belts good for metal?
Click to expand...

That may just be a typo on their site... they're listing ScotchBrite belts as "aluminum oxide" too, which doesn't make sense...

Anway, yeah the green structured Trizact Gator CF belts shown there are what I use all the time. I don't recall offhand exactly what type of ceramic they are, but they do not look or act like typical AO belts at all....

This can get a little tricky, because technically AO is indeed a ceramic material. When we talk about AO abrasives in general, we mean the brown cheap ones like you find at Sears and Home Depot.

I second the recommendation for Dykem. I use the aerosol cans in red because it shows up better to my eyes than blue.
 
Last edited:
Stereo Pete, thanks for the tip bud. Im quite certain its no easy task, especially starting off and plan to go very slow and start with designs simple enough to get a feel for grinding. I will look into the dye as well, this is for just putting the design on the steel??



Excellent, thanks James. That makes it a bit easier to get higher grit belts, albeit a bit more expensive. Putting AO in the description had me a little bit confused LOL

Thanks again bud!
 
worldwood said:
Another question i forgot to ask,

JG, you mention getting a pyroceramic glass platen. I see some at a knife maker website. Is there a certain sized one i need to get for the 2x42?

And then do i just JB weld it to the platen thats on the 2x42 already or is there something else i need to do?

Thanks again everyone!
Click to expand...

Here's a pic of my grinder:


Sorry for the shitty pic. I hacked off a good chunk of the tool rest so I don't have to take it off for belt changes. You can see the 2"x6" pyroceramic glass platen JB welded to the metal platen.
 
I only use the 36 or even 50 when I hog a bunch of metal, typically from 1/4 stock. For smaller, 60 - 120 - 240 works fine. I use the Blaze 60 and 120, for a bunch of blades they are worth the money. trizak 240. I also use a medium scotch brite with black grinding compound to give a nice final finish.
 
Patrickknives said:
I only use the 36 or even 50 when I hog a bunch of metal, typically from 1/4 stock. For smaller, 60 - 120 - 240 works fine. I use the Blaze 60 and 120, for a bunch of blades they are worth the money. trizak 240. I also use a medium scotch brite with black grinding compound to give a nice final finish.
Click to expand...

Me too. That's why I suggested the 50-60 grit belts to him. It's supper easy to screw something up quick with a 36 grit belt. That being said I love 36grit belts for grinding about 75% of the knife. It's just so damn quick.
 
I run 60 grit ceramic, the cheaper version on trugrit for roughing, and the 220 and 400 grit gator belts to clean up stuff. 600 grit works for a nice finish, but not necessary.

Use them like they're free. Dint push a belt too far, you'll just be chasing your tail.
 
I can recommend those belts:
Deerfos BORA7 - I using those belts in 36 and 60grit for shaping blanks.
VSM XK870X - Ceramic from 60 to 120 (Initial bevel grinding)
VSM Compact - Cheaper than trizact I use 240 and 400. (finish before HT)
And of course 3M Trizact belts :P (I love them for wet grinding)
 
Well to start off with these are the ones i went with...

1 x 36 grit Best Value Ceramic
1 x 50 grit Zirconia
2 x 60 grit Best Value Ceramic
3 x 120 grit Best Value Ceramic
2 x 240 grit "Gator" Trizact

I tried mixing up the types of belts a little so i can see how i do with the different types and grits.

Thanks again everyone for the recommendations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top