Newbie Wa-handle question / grind question

[comet_sharp]

Hey guys,
Got some .125 thick 52100 stock and plan on trying my first kitchen knives. Here is a pic of my design, the blade is 6.5" long and the tang that will be in the handle is 2 7/8" long. Plan on using Gflex epoxy and throwing 1 or 2 1/8" 416 stainless pins in there that will not be peend. Handle material will probably be some walnut/cherry scrap from old window panes, I have used the walnut for scales before and after a month or so of sanding and applying a Watco tung finish it is really pretty (6 coats of oil with 12 hour dry time, 3 week cure, finish with furniture wax). My question is will the tang this length be enough to hold the handle in securely or should I cut out a longer tang? After looking at the width of the walnut 11/16" I might find a different wood for the handle, something thicker and save this for scales. I planned on using 2 different kinds of wood, 1 for the handle and 1 for a "ferrule", should I use the epoxy to glue these 2 pieces together as well or just gorilla glue? I will also use 1/2" dowels in the middle with a slit cut in it to house the tang.

I planned on flat grinding the blade from spine to edge until the spine was at a decent thinness then starting a secondary bevel and adding slight convex on a slack belt after heat treat (I'd like to grind as much as possible before since I only have a 1x30)
Here is a little d2 blade I was playing around with to practice bevel grinding, it is the first one I have ever done(done a few chisel grinds, first double bevel). Still needs some work but I think I'll finish it after HT, edge is a little less than dimes thickness.

All the rough patches will get smoothed out, just had to finish because my baby woke up and wanted out of his crib.
Any advice is appreciated and thank you for taking the time to read this.
-Trey

 

[Jonathans]

You are talking about the knife that's sketched out, not the other ones, right?
You should be fine with that length tang with a pin run through the handle and tang.
Forget the gorilla crap and stick with epoxy. Not sure what you are referring to re the dowel.
Drill out your handle for the tang, and drill your "ferrule" piece as well stopping short of the blade end by 1/8".
The 1/8" thick end is what you will carefully notch out for the tang ensuring a tight fit. It's a lot easier fitting 1/8" of wood rather than 3/4" plus.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

The shape and handle need some work before you start. Looking at the previous blades, I think you should get a little more practice before starting this build. Then, redraw the sketch to make a little better shape. The blade looks like you are going for a snatoku. It is a little off for that. The handle isn't a wa shape, either. Take a look at some of the kitchen knives in The Exchange-kitchen knives.

I did a build tutorial a while back that had a lot of wa handle fitting info. The handle fitting starts around post #47.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/916522-Yanagi-ba-BBQ-WIP

BTW, a ferrule is a metal collar that protects and strengthens a tool handle. A bolster is the front section of a knife handle.

Just FYI - a window pane is the glass. The window frame is wood. I never saw a window frame made in walnut, but have seen picture frames made in walnut.

 

[comet_sharp]

The wa handle isn't actually drawn out in that rough sketch, I know it's hard to tell because of the poor picture, but that was a line drawn where I'll shape the tang. It isn't a santoku but a banno bunka and the profile is based off my favorite Masakage Bunka, I gave it a very flat profile because I mainly chop. The window pane was a typo but it is leftover material from the walnut window frames at my mother-in-laws house. My father in law is an architect and redid all of their window framing with walnut wood and gave me some scrapes. I put "ferrule" in quotes because I know it is not a ferrule but a bolster that I will just epoxy to the main part of the wa handle it imitate a ferrule but the only purpose it will serve is to add a color contrast.
I know I need more practice on bevel grinding but the little knife I showed was the first bevel I have ever ground that wasn't terrible and is still a WIP as I had to stop and haven't been able to go out and finish it. The asymmetry in it is a little left hand biased which I will address as I thin it out some more.
The 1/8" tip for getting the tang to fit into the bolster snug was wonderful info Jonathans, thank you! I was about to file out the entire bolster for a tight fit instead of just leaving 1/8" and drilling the rest.
Going to look at your handle build now Stacy. Thank you both for the advice and criticisms. I will be back on the grinder soon.
-Trey

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Sounds good. My terminology comments were because we get a fair bit of language barrier situations here where a word seems right, but isn't.

Take a look at this for a basic bunka-bano profile:
http://www.zknives.com/knives/knimg...nives.com/knives/jpnkktype/banobunkabocho.jpg

I would also suggest a bit longer tang. I prefer 3" to 4" total tang length in the handle. With a 2" tang and a bolster, the joint between main handle and bolster could be weak.

 

[comet_sharp]

I see now having part of the cutting edge parallel with the spine was a poor design choice and would feel bad in hand. Here are a few modifications and a petty I designed earlier which I might try first so if my bevels are really bad it isn't a huge waste of material. I figure the best way to practice is to try to make what drives me until I am happy with the outcome. Also, <3 Takeda-san. His zero grinds are the most fun to sharpen!

The petty is a much smoother sketch because I traced it off a blank I ground out in wood. My sketching is terrible and I just use for rough shapes and finish them on the grinder as I can see it come to life.

I will most likely go between 3.5 and 4" for the tang, thank you for the suggestion, with all the chopping I do it needs to be sturdy!
Also hope I didn't sound rude with my previous post, I was exhausted when I made the original post and realized it turned into a rant with improper terminology. Once again thanks for the criticisms as it will only help to make me better!
Thanks again!
-Trey

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Those look very good. See how much difference raising the tang at a little angle from the edge plane makes

Working the bevels flat is the key to getting a wide blade knife to look good. Every ripple or rounded spot will show like a paint smudge on a pretty girls face. File/grind it flat and sand it flat with a hard backing block on the paper. If you have large diamond or waterstones, use them to assure the bevels are flat before the finish sanding.

No apology needed. I often worry that my info and critique will be taken as an attack. You took it as meant, advice and clarification.

 

[comet_sharp]

Made a huge difference!
Diamond plate and water stones have been my weapons of choice for a while now, I am used to do everything by hand. I did these repairs and thinning with a 140x Atoma and finished with stones so I will probably finish all the bevels I grind on the plate as well. It is my comfort zone.