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BradleySmall

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This looked like what may have been a sod buster or I think they called it a country cousin. I don't get a story with it but it came with what looks like a copper or brass flathead rivet, and a brand new clip point blade.

It has liners but no bolsters. The tail and middle pins are nice and tight. The rivet fits through the scales but not the blade. And the scales seem like they have seen quite some experiences but aren't ready for the trash quite yet.

I plan on finding a way to enlarge the hole in the blade to fit the rivet. Pretty sure I can get it in without too much calisthenics.

I am not sure what the scale material is, kind of like the plastic on of my dogs chew toys. Any good ways to polish and clean that part up?

Still can't figure out how to post pictures here properly. I put it on tumblr hopefully that will come through.
 
The scales are flexed pretty far apart; the liners may also be flexed as well? If you rivet it back together, it may be loose or pop apart again. Maybe see if you can find a screw in pivot to attach the blade to the handle. You will need a carbide bit to drill the blade hole most likely and will probably want to ream it to match your pivot size as well.
 
I think it is the spring tention why you can't go trough the blade.

Why re-do? It is going to take time and effort, might as well do it right.
Those liners and scales look bad and new materials don't need to be expensive
 
Your rivet is incomplete. It's called a "cutler's rivet," and there is a missing female side. The rivets are available a knifemaker's supply houses.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Your rivet is incomplete. It's called a "cutler's rivet," and there is a missing female side. The rivets are available a knifemaker's supply houses.
Click to expand...
The other side of the knife has the female embedded into the scale. But it doesn't look like a cutlery rivet, it looks like a 1/4" pin with a hole in the center. I think this is intended for the rivet to go through and be peened on the other side. At least that is what it looks like. I can take another picture if it would make it clearer
 
So I worked it up to 1200 by hand. The scales are pretty smooth, but definitely not glossy. I enlarged the blade hole to match the rivet with a carbide bit. Even, with the whole thing squeezed together I can't seem to get the tip proud on the other side. But the head is not all the way buried beneath the surface either. Perhaps this was the original pin and has been ground off.

I can reach out to the person I got it from, but I am not expecting a response. :)

Choices, choices, choices...

If I can get the female piece out, perhaps I can use a cutlery rivet. Or I can look for a longer rivet. Or I can fill the rivet side with a piece of a pin and drill through it and just put a pin in both...
 
I reached out and they assured me it is as it should be. I will try to sink the head as deeply as I can, then pinch it together somehow and see if there is enough to peen.

I was looking on all kinds of knife supply sites for the Cutler rivets but I couldn't seem to find any with 1/8" shaft and 1/4" head.
 
Are you sure that's the rivet that originally came with the folder? A lot of slipjoints use just a standard pin (1/8" or even 3/32") and for softer material like yours has, you'll simply have some washers with an inner diameter that just fits over the pin. The pin will then be peened tight to the washer, which is there to provide more surface area against the scale (or cover) and keep the peened pin from pulling through or cracking the softer material. Sounds like you still have one of the original washers on one side of the knife.
 
Drew Riley said:
Are you sure that's the rivet that originally came with the folder? A lot of slipjoints use just a standard pin (1/8" or even 3/32") and for softer material like yours has, you'll simply have some washers with an inner diameter that just fits over the pin. The pin will then be peened tight to the washer, which is there to provide more surface area against the scale (or cover) and keep the peened pin from pulling through or cracking the softer material. Sounds like you still have one of the original washers on one side of the knife.
Click to expand...
No, I am not sure of anything. :) I only know what I have on my hand, and what I've been told.

I am open to suggestions.
 
To explain what the folks are saying:
The pin that goes through the blade is called a pivot pin. The ones that just go through the handle and other parts are called rivets.

A cutler's rivet is a two-part rivet that is used to mount the handles scales on a full tang knife (usually on kitchen knives) The female part is placed through one scale and the tang, and the male is inserted through the other scale. When they are pressed or hammered together, the male expands the female until it locks onto the hole in the blade tang. These rivets were very common years ago, but are not often used today by knifemakers. They are not for folding knives.

What you need is a pin (rivet) and two washers.
The washers are the exact size to fit the pin stock. Each washer is recessed a bit into the handle scale, and the pin is inserted through the washers, scales and liners, and the folder blade. The ends are carefully peened to lock them into the washers. The blade will then pivot on the pin. A pin without washers will usually be used on the other end to tightly fit the scales or bolsters, backspring, and spacers together. The ends of the pin are gently peened to flare them enough to lock in the holes through the scales or bolsters. A center pin is on many folders which holds the backspring in place. This pin is under pressure from the backspring and is barely peened ... just enough to keep it in place.

Once the folder has been fully assembled and checked for smoothness and fit-up, the scales and ends of the pins are sanded flush and polished. Don't take too much off the peened ends of the pins or they may come loose.

Again, what you need is a pair of washers (same size as the one on the one scale) and pin stock to fit the washers.
Another (better) alternative is a pivot with screws from each side.
Look in knifekits.com for many sizes of pivots, washers, and pin stock.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
To explain what the folks are saying:
The pin that goes through the blade is called a pivot pin. The ones that just go through the handle and other parts are called rivets.

A cutler's rivet is a two-part rivet that is used to mount the handles scales on a full tang knife (usually on kitchen knives) The female part is placed through one scale and the tang, and the male is inserted through the other scale. When they are pressed or hammered together, the male expands the female until it locks onto the hole in the blade tang. These rivets were very common years ago, but are not often used today by knifemakers. They are not for folding knives.

What you need is a pin (rivet) and two washers.
The washers are the exact size to fit the pin stock. Each washer is recessed a bit into the handle scale, and the pin is inserted through the washers, scales and liners, and the folder blade. The ends are carefully peened to lock them into the washers. The blade will then pivot on the pin. A pin without washers will usually be used on the other end to tightly fit the scales or bolsters, backspring, and spacers together. The ends of the pin are gently peened to flare them enough to lock in the holes through the scales or bolsters. A center pin is on many folders which holds the backspring in place. This pin is under pressure from the backspring and is barely peened ... just enough to keep it in place.

Once the folder has been fully assembled and checked for smoothness and fit-up, the scales and ends of the pins are sanded flush and polished. Don't take too much off the peened ends of the pins or they may come loose.

Again, what you need is a pair of washers (same size as the one on the one scale) and pin stock to fit the washers.
Another (better) alternative is a pivot with screws from each side.
Look in knifekits.com for many sizes of pivots, washers, and pin stock.
Click to expand...
Okay! Thanks that makes much more sense for what I am seeing, and what I have in my hands. So I need to find or make a washer similar to the one that is stuck inside the existing scale. I didn't try to remove it for fear that it was glued in place. But I will do my best to measure it and search the site you recommended. In one of the videos I watched I saw the fellow make it on the fly from a piece of larger pin stock. washer on the fly but I was concerned for accuracy on my part since I am trying not to completely disassemble the knife if I don't have to.

I found the Loveless fasteners on that site, but so far I am not having much luck with the washers. I will keep looking.
 
So,for now I have a plan. The opening is 5/16 rather than 1/4. The hole through the middle is 1/8 give or take :) this translates to me as a #4 stove bolt. I have a bucket full of brass that bought when one of the big box stores went out of business (HQ anyone remember them?) So the hex nut has 5/16 flat. I will spin a pair of these nuts down to round. One on either side and the screw down the center and I've made my own Loveless fastener,. Right?

So I need some threads left proud on each side to peen the bolt? Or just add some kind of glue to the threads? Will it matter that the blade is pivoting on "threads"?
 
Yes, they don't carry any outer washers, just the pivot washers that are between the blade and the liners.
Most folks either make them their self or buy a washer and drill and turn it down to the size needed. A good hardware store with the bins of scres.bolts and washers will have what you want. I go to True Value or Ace for these things.

If you have a fellow knifemaker near you, I bet they could help you finish the knife in 30 minutes.

Also check out places lie USA Knifemakers. Besides pin stock and such, tey have lots of folder making parts.
These are sex-bolts and require a recess in the scales.
1647698340568.png

Theses have bolts on both ends. You can buy all types and sizes of pivots and bolts to get what you need/want.
1647698554147.png1647699000682.png
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Yes, they don't carry any outer washers, just the pivot washers that are between the blade and the liners.
Most folks either make them their self or buy a washer and drill and turn it down to the size needed. A good hardware store with the bins of scres.bolts and washers will have what you want. I go to True Value or Ace for these things.

If you have a fellow knifemaker near you, I bet they could help you finish the knife in 30 minutes.

Also check out places lie USA Knifemakers. Besides pin stock and such, tey have lots of folder making parts.
These are sex-bolts and require a recess in the scales.
View attachment 1770169

Theses have bolts on both ends. You can buy all types and sizes of pivots and bolts to get what you need/want.
View attachment 1770170View attachment 1770172
Click to expand...
Cool, it's nice to know such things exist. Unfortunately I will have to wait until I am placing an order for other stuff or the shipping will be more than the product :) for now I will try turning down some #4 hex nuts and see if I can match the size. Failing that I will hit the hardware store and and see what I can find.
 
Drew Riley said:
I'd fill out your profile/location info. If you're anywhere near Valparaiso, Indiana, I'd say come on over.
Click to expand...
I am in Mooresville, NC... A bit of a commute. :) I will try to find the profile stuff later. It's tough from the phone. Easier on the computer.
 
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